Saturday, February 6, 2016

The Disciplined Husbands Forum - Vol. 124 -- The Plan vs. The Reality


Hi all. Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum, our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in Domestic Disciplined and Female Led Relationships.  I hope you all had a great week.

Thanks for all the input on our "tears" and "immediate consequences" topics.  On the former, it's hard to say that any general pattern emerged.  Some men cry and some don't.  For those who do, some but not all found it much easier to do after the first time.  In terms of the formula, the only general truth seems to be that the physical pain is not enough, and may not even be a particularly significant component for some.  I did get the sense, rightly or wrongly, that just as I seem to be an anomaly where lack of early interest in spanking is concerned, I also may be on the fringes where this combination of fascination and dread of tears is concerned.  As I said in the post, my original attraction to, yet terror at the prospect of, really sobbing during a DD spanking was by far the most emotionally charged driver of my compulsion to suggest this lifestyle to my wife.  Here we are ten years later, and it still hasn't happened.  If part of the goal of DD is submitting to her authority, I do feel like part of me is still failing to do that if I can't give in and cry.  But, we will I suppose just have to see what time brings.

The discussion did highlight that for most people, "immediate consequences" following a disciplinary infraction is the preference, though one that is hard to achieve.  Particularly for those with kids around.  I am convinced that the presence of children, or lack thereof, is one reason that one of our polls showed the DD population tilted so heavily toward the over-50, post child-rearing crowd.  Something I had not really thought about was whether it was possible to build in an incentive for the disciplinarian to take things in hand quickly, then Ed described the 24-Hour Rule in his household, in which his wife either delivers the spanking within 24 hours or he is off the hook.  That sounds to me like a step in the right direction.

I am still finding myself a little uninspired when it comes to new and original weekly topics.  Now that we have a few years under our belt, I need to go back to some of the early stuff and do some recycling.   This week's topic, however, is something that may not be totally original since we've touched on this theme a bit before, but it was suggested by one of our regular commenters and has not really been done as an independent topic.

The topic is, has your DD relationship changed significantly from the original vision and goals?

For us, while many things have stayed the same, there have undoubtedly been surprises along the way.  Especially the last year.

It's hard to say that we really had a vision for DD when we started.  We didn't even really know what it was.  I had never heard of anything like it before I encountered the DWC website.  So, all I really knew was I wanted to try something like "that," whatever "that" was.  For her, I think she was genuinely attracted to something that gave her a means of exercising more control, venting some frustrations, and exacting some penance.  Of course, the overarching goal was for me to have an incentive to behave better.  Beyond that, we really had no idea exactly what we were getting into.  One thing that is reasonably clear, however, is there was no explicit goal to have a much broader power exchange.  Yes, we wanted to help build up her authority and confidence, but it was all very centered on this central idea of spanking as punishment for particular behavior.  Very much like how Fred characterizes his relationship.

Over the last year, that limited vision began to morph into something different.  It really began, I think, when this blog started getting some participation from Disciplinary Wives who had taken that next step into "Head of Household" status.  Their descriptions of the level of control they exercised reinforced my own deep-seated needs to have boundaries imposed.  I think DD does that, but in the form we were doing it the emphasis was really on the consequences for crossing a line, and not so much about how and by whom the line gets set in the first place.  The "rules' that we had in place--those things that would result in a spanking--were something we both agreed on, and often something I suggested.  But, an HoH system goes beyond that.  It is about not just enforcing the rules, but actually making them.


Interactions with our strong Disciplinary Wives, and especially with one FLR blogger, Rhiannon at http://learningandlivingaflr.blogspot.com led me to start pondering the possibility of expanding from Domestic Discipline into something like an FLR/HOH relationship.

Angela and I talked about it and have taken baby steps in that direction over the last year.  It has not been easy, and there is definitely an aspect of "be careful what you wish for, you might get it" in this experimentation.  The most conspicuous example of that is around what I call "service domination," where she can, and to my chagrin increasingly does, direct me to do more chores around the house and things of that nature.


 It's not the chores themselves that bother me.  I've always been pretty good about carrying my weight on things like that. It really is being ordered to drop what I am doing (frequently work) and respond to some impromptu command to bring in the groceries, or take out the trash, etc.  The irony is I suggested that she start doing that kind of commanding, but once she did, I hated it.  Unfortunately, she did not.  She kind of gets off on it, and it is the one aspect of our FLR-related vision that has really taken root.  Therein lies the challenge, of course, in implementing a real change in the power relationship and in designating a real Head of Household.  It creates an actual hierarchy of decision-makers and, if you are the person at the lower level in the hierarchy, you do what you are told regardless of whether you enjoy it. 


In fact, you may be doing it precisely because you don't like it, because submission that is easy really isn't submission and the goal is to force you to stretch to submit in situations you don't like. I'm learning that is the hard part for me -- taking orders from someone.  Angela has, in fact, spanked me for not doing dishes. But, it was not the spanking itself that was the hardest part to take.  Rather, it was the order to do something that was more of a priority for my HoH than it was for me, and recognizing that now that we appointed her HoH it is her priorities that count and not my own.

So, with that every long-winded account of how our goals and vision have changed, how about yours?

Have a great week.  And, go Broncos!

Dan


33 comments:

  1. Thanks for a thoughtful post. I have been in a Female Led Relationship for over two years now. It began as sex play focused on pleasing her and spanking me (something that i have fantasized about for years) and evolved from there. After the first few months of frank discussion about dominance and submission, we finally wrote a contract governing my behavior as her servant and her responsibilities as my superior. Now i am considered a slave, and for the past year my slavery is playing out in as total a way as we can make it. We are divorcees with no children in the house, and i retired in my fifties while my Mistress (who is 12 years younger) has a busy career. From the beginning of our relationship i did house work because she obviously needed help, but that has evolved now into total subservience on my part and total control on her part, all with the goal of making her life easier. Like your wife, my Mistress gets off on control. It amazes me how quickly she moved from a "typical housewife" lifestyle to what we have now. For over 12 months i've been kept naked most of the time, and i am spanked twice a day, with punishments on top of that, as needed. Those punishments can include caning, prolonged kneeling, sleeping on the floor, going to bed without dinner, and CBT. I rarely am allowed sexual release, though i am expected to be erect and ready to please her on demand. You know, in some ways this is a kind of fantasy come true. It's stuff I used to dream about. Now that it is real, it is very hard to take sometimes. I find myself tired, hungry, bruised and swamped with chores, with no right to complain or even speak without permission. What makes it work is quite simple -- she loves me, and i love her. When she gives me permission to speak, i never hesitate to express my adoration of her, and she does the same for me, and we really mean it. This kind of lifestyle has its tough moments, but it isn't all harsh and mean. The daily maintenance spankings, while sometimes painful (especially if i have welts from a recent caning) are often a lot of fun, and the constant teasing is, too. In addition, the simple mental aspect of it all -- the knowledge that i belong to her as a slave and she really does control and own me -- is like a powerful drug that can erase a lot of negativity. At times i wish i could simply stretch out on the sofa and watch a ball game or something, but on the other hand, i can't imagine giving this up. Kneeling at her feet and waiting on her hand and foot -- all that stuff seems natural to me now. And she clearly loves it. I feel lucky.

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    1. You've obviously come a very long way from your starting point. The Mistress/slave model is probably further down the path of female control than we are likely to ever go, but it sounds like it works for you both.

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  2. Our DD relationship initially began as part of sexual foreplay with both of us giving and receiving spankings. It also involved at lot of role playing. My wife had never been spanked as a child so it was a new experience for her. I had been raised by my grandmother and great aunt who had frequently put me over their knees for bare bottom hairbrush spankings right up to the age of 16. Over time my wife gradually took on a much more dominant role in our relationship which we both agreed fitted with our personalities and hence she now solely administers and I receive the spankings, strappings, paddlings and canings. The only exception is occasionally my wife may request a spanking if she feels that she has done something worthy of correction. This has only happened handful of times over the last 10 years. The last occasion was when she received a costly speeding ticket. She insisted that I apply the same number of hairbrush strokes to her bare bottom for each dollar of the fine. My wife is very elegant and she really enjoys her dominant role and I really enjoy being subservient to her. We both have professional careers and lead busy lives. My wife gives me a weekly maintenance spanking on Sunday night before bed. It is always an over the knee bare bottom hand and hairbrush spanking. My wife also loves to catch me off-guard with impromptu spankings. An example of this recently was when I was 10 minutes late picking her up from airport. She told me turn into airport parking lot and park the car. She then moved the back seat and ordered me to drop my pants and get over my knee. She produced a hairbrush from her handbag and gave a very sound spanking that several people passing by witnessed. I haven't been late again. My wife gauges my moods and if she feels that some adjustment is required during the week then I may be ordered to assume the position which means to bend over the dining room table. She will then apply either her paddle or strap to both a covered and then bared bottom. The cane is only usually applied for very bad behaviour. We have a wonderful life together and our dd relationship is very fulfilling for us both.

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    1. Hi Anonymous. Sounds like a great progression from role-play to a really long and lasting DD relationship and that she has come to really take control. Thanks for contributing.

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  3. The "rules" that N. (my first wife) had set even before we were married were "customary" rather than "codified", but they were clear enough: she would be HoH, and I would be expected: a) to treat her as such - and b) to perform any number of household chores she decreed. Any failure to meet those rules would result in whatever form of punishment she deemed "appropriate". Over the years, the only changes were in her using additional "tools" - and (much as I hated it at first!) to wallop my bare derrière under the eyes of some of her close friends - one of whom, as it turned, was the one I married after N's untimely death.

    Aside from introducing me to a couple of new "tools", J. has essentially been following N's MO - and I get spanked, whipped, caned &c at least as often as I was by N.

    L.

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    1. Hi L. Thanks for sharing, particularly about how you've come to have two long-term DD relationships.

      Dan

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    2. I suppose it comes from something they had in common - namely that they would take no nonsense from me !

      L.

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  4. With regards to your comment: " It really is being ordered to drop what I am doing (frequently work) and respond to some impromptu command to bring in the groceries, or take out the trash, etc."

    I do not know your life nor your situation, but doesn't interfering with your work negatively impact the quality of your family life. Our FLR cannot interfere with my job. I am the soul breadwinner in my family, so my wife is very deferential to the requirements of my job. I have a very complex and all encompassing job, that requires late night phone calls and unexpected trips. It pays extremely well, but I do not own my life. In fact, it is my job that got us on this journey. It is impossible to be on top of everything that I am responsible for. My wife is extremely smart (valedictorian of her college class), so she thought that I was just whining. So she spent a day with me at work (I'm mid-higher level- so there was no problem). After about four hours, her head was spinning and she gave me hug and told me that what ever support I needed, she would try to give me. Luckily, even my boss and my boss' boss recognize the inability for anyone to do what I am expected to do, so I am expected to prioritize and keep them informed of gaps and shortfalls. Being anal and an alpha type, I found myself losing focus and becoming despondent. My sense of accomplishment and self worth were taking hits and when I got home all I wanted to do was crawl into dark place. Recognizing that this was not going to end well, I sought my wife's love and understanding. Without going into a four page dialog (and a description of the shocked look on my wife's face), we began a FLR relationship that is focused not on home-life but my job. Her discipline to me is about my job performance, not the chores that I do. I have to tell her how my work is going and where my shortfalls are. She punishes me for those areas where I could have done better (based upon my self-reported on my performance). One significant difference from what I have read on this blog, is that my wife does not humiliate me nor tell me that I have done wrong. Rather she tells gives me words of encouragement while she is physically punishing me (spanking). It is cathartic to receive physical pain for my shortfalls and inspiring to hear her words of encouragement. It not only removes guilt for not doing my best, but also makes me want to do better. One interesting wrinkle is when I have a big deadline, I'll ask to be thrashed. Nothing like a sore bottom to keep me focused on the project at hand.

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    1. Dan- And, in turn, i liked the way you pointed out how a one-dimensional work existence is not balanced, and the interruptions and annoyances bring a better life balance and flow in the long term. Very nice.
      sara

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    2. Dan,

      I will try to give a fuller explanation and more of a background, but it might be some weeks before I have the time to commit to it. It is easy to write four pages of rambling thoughts and experiences, but hard to write two coherent pages.

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    3. As Mark Twain said, "I apologize for the length of this letter. I didn't have time to make it shorter." Or something like that.

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  5. Dan- Thanks for another thoughtful post.
    Interesting, re 50+ being a large part of us DD'ers, It's far easier when kids are out, but also wonder if it isn't something like a decline in testosterone in us males over time. Haven't looked into it, but it seems in my 20s, i wouldn't have gone for this lifestyle; now it's okay, even preferred. We (well I) tried me spanking my Wife to "liven things" at one point... we quickly found out that She preferred being the spanker, and i became the spankee!

    Your point on being told to get up and help your Wife immediately is one that also resonates here. i think guys are wired to think "Sure, i'll get that done" (at the right time, soon) -- and it comes as a shock that it has to be done "RIGHT NOW!" It seems reasonable to males to get to it at the most logical time. But, we've all seen *that* face on our Significant Other, that gets us up off our laptops and warm sofas, and get scramblin' on something in a gawd-forsaken part of the house or yard! Thinking if we do well, maybe we have the chance of getting "brownie points," but never sure.

    Giving up the option of initiating sex is another change. i think it's been good for us, avoiding fights we sometimes had. But i thought i could "persuade" Her in bed more successfully than has been the case. Though again, maybe a function of 50s in age.

    Finally, there are decisions sometimes that have taken me by surprise. My Dear Wife is very smart, but sometimes is too emotional or flighty on making choices. i try to use my logic to assist. Often it helps, as i do research on buying things (options, Consumer Reports, etc) that are helpful. But, sometimes She just is going to do something. One shocking example (to me) was when She wanted a new car. I wanted to research places to buy it, etc. This had gone on for a few workdays. On the weekend, She called me from the car place, saying She had bought the car, and we'd be trading in another car we owned. i was stunned and i'll admit a little mad, but She had decided.

    Thanks again for the posts and discussions.
    sara

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    1. Dan- I'm glad I gave an experienced blogger like you a new perspective.

      Wow, sounds like on Wife decision making, we are experiencing similar fates! Probably my Wife is a bit ahead of Yours on this, it sounds like, but you nailed it. Gulp! :) I like to procrastinate by research, too. Buying the car was just the biggest example! Like you, I think my Wife is better with negotiations and does a much better job. In fact, on earlier car purchase She wanted, I let Her go alone -- mostly because I would have been totally humiliated just sitting there, as She did all the dealing, lol! Most times, I find in the end She was right with Her decision to buy something, even if I wasn't too thrilled at the time.

      Btw, this week I learned I hate ironing a big table cloth, lol!
      Sara

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    2. I'm 6'7" I hate ironing my pants

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    3. Ha ha!! :D You're far taller than me... more of you for your Wife to spank!
      (ironically, ironing is less boring if you're *forced* to do it)
      s.

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    4. Dan- Thinking of you guys last night. My Wife is just a little larger than me, but it sounds like you have quite a size differential, so that is interesting. I recalled this old (good) blog where the husband is much taller than his lovely Wife Dierdre... i imagine you've seen before, but one never knows :) s.
      http://spankingmyhusband.blogspot.com/

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    5. Just to be clear, the comments about size came from one of the commenters, not me. 6'7" -- in my dreams!

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  6. Has the vision changed? I don't think there was a vision as we were both surprised that a) I could be so honest about my interest and b) that she took to it like a duck to water. Over the past few years I have guided, provided feedback and procured the implements as we developed in our understanding. I don't think she either enjoys and not the actual spankings that she now gives me almost without fail every weekend - just to keep me in line. She does get satisfaction from the impromptu beatings that I get at other times when I act like a spoilt child, have a temper tantrum or be deliberately rude.

    She relishes the control and the setting of boundaries - I no longer am allowed to sulk or be moody as my pants WILL come off and I WILL be in pain until the mood improves. I love doing little things for her - being sent for the wine or whatever and I am maybe going to explore with her an even more submissive role.

    So in summary I am very happy with the way our DD experiences have and continue to develop. I get what I deserve and I adore her for it

    TB

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    1. Dan
      If you feel she should spank you for moodiness then I think it is your place to ask for that.
      It may humble you a bit to ask for it. If there is anything that is more annoying to a partner
      is moodiness of ones partner.
      Said with love
      anna

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  7. Our DD relationship has remained pretty much like we initially set it up as I have said in other posts. We have added rules as things arise we hadn't anticipated and she is the initiator of those discussions. and they have all made sense and so I agree. She does ask me to do more things around the house that are not in the rules. She will always say, "will you please do this or that" and I do. I have told her on occasion I'm doing something else now, but I will get to it and eventually do as soon as practical. My wife also feels she can buy what she wants, but is cost conscious and sensible so I never object. In these ways she asks more of me than she did before we started DD. She also will kiddingly tell me (but I don't take it as kidding)you may need an eye opener (spanking) if you don't start behaving. So she has to that extent become more assertive. Finally, when I do violate a rule, even a minor one, there is no hesitation on her part to make it really hurt, even for lesser rule violations. Initially she was more cautious about hurting me too much, but has come to realize it is necessary to make her point in such a way that the lesson gets through to me. That said our existing system works well and I have no desire to be in a FLR and my wife prefers me to be the leader- provided I stay within our agreed upon boundaries and if I don't she has no problem being the disciplinarian. So we do have a power shift in our relationship to that extent.

    Fred

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    1. Hi Fred. It's great that things started out working for you and still do pretty much as originally intended.

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  8. Has the DD relationship changed over time. Of course. As our relationship evolves so does the DD side. We talk a lot. Share a lot.

    As we have become more comfortable with the physical aspects of things she is willing to be more harsh or severe as I can take more.

    New rules to follow / live by have come and gone as circumstances have arisen.

    The basic fundamental of me her supplicant has not changed however.

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    1. Evolution versus revolution is probably pretty common.

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  9. I love reading your blog even though my wife and I will never be in a DD relationship; she is adamant about that. Nevertheless, I have been paddled by my wife twice a week, on average, for a bunch of years, because, as my wife expresses it, "You love being spanked by me, and I spank you (only) because I love you." I suspect this is the underlying reason most DD wives would give.

    My wife spanks me hard, from start to finish, administered with a long-handled wooden paddle, and they hurt. She usually stops after my bottom starts to develop an ashen color. One thing that I have learned is not to top from the bottom, during or after I am spanked; when the paddling begins, she is fully in control of the details. So this too has something in common with the DD relationships described in this forum.

    Another thing that is similar to a DD relationship, is that my wife has evolved into assuming more control of our marriage. I have asked her how she would like for me to show my appreciation for her spanking me, and she told me that she wished that I would be a bigger help around the house. And, out of love for her, and to show my appreciation in a tangible way, I have become a significantly bigger help around the house. Not out of compulsion, but because I love her. Over time she has asked me to do increasing more things around the house, and I comply most of the time.

    But if I don't do something she asks for me to do, I am not spanked, but she does express her disappointment, and I am usually sensitive to that. So, in summary, though we are not in a DD relationship, what we have looks like it in a number of respects. And it works well for both of us.

    Thanks, Dan, for all the hard work you put into administering this excellent blog.

    Doug

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    1. Hello Dan,
      The biggest change from my perspective is that the power struggle is over while I can control his behavior to the point I find necessary. He absolutely needed me to take control and retrospectively I realize much of his acting out was an effort to push me to take control. We have evolved but we are close to where I thought we would be when we started almost nine years ago. If anything surprises me it is how comfortable I am with it. When we started I saw it as a responsibility to be carried out. It is that and often work but I get considerable satisfaction knowing I can control him and that he is a better happier man because of discipline. Also I have been surprised how effective spanking is.I believe that surprised Jay as well
      Marisa

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    2. Hi Marisa. DD has really taught me that, as a wise Disciplinary Wife told me, there really are no "equal" relationships. And, if there are, I'm pretty sure they aren't happy ones. I have one work relationship in which I have a project I'm handling with a true peer. We are both strong personalities and frequently differ on approaches to certain issues, and the fact that we really are peers and both very hardheaded leaves us with no good mechanism to break a tie. As a result, we are often pissed off at each other or constantly walking on eggshells trying to avoid the next clash. It has convinced me that relationships in which there really is one identified decision-maker are just healthier.

      It's great that you are so comfortable with it, despite the obvious responsibility it entails.

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    3. Hi Doug. It may not be DD, but it sounds close enough for our club!

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  10. Dan

    Recently came across a book I enjoyed about female led relationships This quote stood out to me as
    a wife who was is just beginning to discipline her man. The book is called "The Hesitant Mistress"
    by Dvanna Hightower. Basically without quoting directly she points out that if a man confides his darkest
    secret desires to you he has given you the keys to his soul. Its a gift of love .
    It stayed with me and has guided me.

    A wife who disciplines

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    1. Hi AWWD. I have read that book, and I think it is one of the only "how to" books on FLR that is actually worth the read. I think it's advice to women on learning to trust their own judgment and say what they mean without qualification was very good.

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    2. Dan
      I too found that book very helpful to me when trying to open up to Anna. Funny that phrase she mentioned has always stuck with me.
      Peter

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  11. I have written this before but I suppose there wasn't really a change in vision or plan, but more of a change in the realization of it. I suppose I came into this wanting it but with an experimental attitude. And i think Rosa came into the arrangement as a person who never did this before but somehow always felt this was how things should be. So when things clicked and clicked quickly and decisively, I think I was the one who was thinking: "OK, so this is no longer an experiment. This is my life. Obedience isn't a goal.....it's an expectation." That was huge for me.....and still is. I guess having 'played' D/s games most of my life, living a real situation like this is a bit of a shock. It's very cool, but scary at the same time.

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    1. Thanks, KD. I totally get the scary part of something like this becoming "real," as in really subordinating yourself to another person.

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  12. Dan
    One of the reasons I enjoy your blog is that you have a perspective on Domestic Discipline that I do not have. I try to contribute, but the thing that keeps me coming back is that I learn a lot from you and the other contributors to your blog. I don't have anything to add to the topic you brought up this week, but have thought about the following comment you made since reading your blog last weekend:
    “If part of the goal of DD is submitting to her authority, I do feel like part of me is still failing to do that if I can't give in and cry. But, we will I suppose just have to see what time brings.”

    I have mentioned that I have always been attracted to women and spanking, and prefer to be in the dominant position (so I am probably an outsider looking in, if the readers of your blog constitute a group). Your comment caused me to think about what attracts me to spanking on a deeper level (so thank you).

    I remembered that in some of my earlier relationships, spanking was used as erotic play. However, most of the time, there was no actual submission, because the spanking was playful. I remembered that I enjoyed giving a spanking (she was attractive, her butt was cute and available, groping and patting was permitted, etc,), but it wasn't as enjoyable as giving a spanking to a woman who did submit. Further, a submissive women, to me, is always more attractive than a dominant woman (I like and enjoy the company of both dominant women and submissive women – but when I am not in a relationship, and I am seeking one, I generally pursue a woman who is submissive even if spanking is not part of the relationship).

    I think, then, the recipe for true arousal for me, is the submission with the spanking. Her crying would not be necessary for me to know that I have the submission. I know the submission is there by her actions at the time, her words before, during and after the spanking and her behavior, towards me, and in general, afterwards.

    Maybe it is the same for Angela. I don't know for sure, and it is not clear from your posting, but have you asked Angela whether she believe that you have fully submitted to her” (And do you think that you have fully submitted to Angela - from your blog post, it appears that you may not have). If Angela does not believe that you have fully submitted to her, perhaps that is what you should work on first (focus on actual submission instead of focusing on the tears.) Also, does Angela believe that she needs to see tears to prove your full submission?

    If Angela believes that you have submitted, (or once you get to that point), the next step might be for you to get a better understanding of the reason you have these needs. It is clear from your comments that you may be seeking the emotional release of a good cry from the discipline, and it is also clear that the release has not happened, yet. So my question is, “Why is crying during a spanking such an emotional driver for you?” You do not have to answer on the blog, but perhaps, once you understand why the release is important to you (or why you are seeking the release), you might be able to discover what is missing to achieve that release. Maybe, when you have time, analyze that question as deep as you can (one way to do the analysis is to ask “Why is ____ true,” with the answer to the previous question used to fill in the blank of the next question, and keep going until the question does not make sense, or there is no known answer for the question). It might be helpful to write each of the answers down, or maybe, if you are not going to write the answers down, to speak the answer out loud (i.e. while you are commuting are in a car by yourself – so you are talking to yourself).

    Thanks again for your great blog, and I wish you the best of luck achieving your release.

    Jack

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