Saturday, January 30, 2016

The Forum -- Vol. 123 -- Immediate Consequences & Tears cont.

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum, our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships.  

Thanks to everyone who weighed in last week on the topic of tears.  The one group we didn't hear from much was the disciplinary wives.  A few posted comments, but none posted anything on the question I asked about how bringing the husband to tears affects them.  (Merry wanted to weigh in on the question but has not yet brought her partner to tears.)  I would still love to hear from the Wives on this, and also anything they would care to share regarding their own journey on this issue.  Did you set out wanting to make your husband cry?  Were you reluctant to do so?  How does it feel now -- empowering, satisfying, or something else.  So, in the interests of hearing more from the wives, I want to leave the tears topic open for another week.

Following up on another topic that was suggested a few weeks and also was suggested by DWC Fred's most recent comment, let's talk about prompt behavior correction.  Is spanking immediately after an offense the goal?  If so, what are the impediments to making it happen?  Kids? Jobs? Other interfering events or people? What ways have you worked out to get around those distractions and interferences?  Conversely, is prompt punishment really an unqualified good?  What role does anticipation play?  Is it better to order a punishment and let him stew on it for awhile? I wasn't spanked that often as a kid, but I definitely remember the anxiety that accompanied my mother announcing, "Just wait until your father gets home."  Is there a value in allowing for that time to think about consequences, letting the anticipating build?

I can really argue this one from both perspectives.  I do feel like spankings might work better as real behavior correction if the consequences for bad behavior were more immediate.  On the other hand, there is a certain emotional tension that comes with knowing I will be spanked sometime soon, but not knowing exactly when.  

So, please share your thoughts on immediate punishment, making it happen, and whether it is, in fact, what should happen.  And please continue to tell us anything you want about tears.  I'm really hoping to hear more from the wives on this one.  

Welcome back to a way to initiate prompt behavior correction.

33 comments:

  1. Thanks for your post, and look forward to Wive's comments as well.
    As for spanking immediacy, you've hit on impediments we face. While i think i could appreciate the immediate punishment's effect, it rarely happens. An interesting thing there is immediacy adds to the "unpredictability" of things, and keeps a male more on edge. However, an immediate statement (or whisper in the mall) saying you're gonna get it, and the anticipation, seems to have a whole other impact. i was driving home yesterday, knowing i was to get a spanking, and it really was in my head.
    Again, hope for the Women's comments. Thanks, sara

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    1. Thanks, sara. I agree those immediate whispers when in public can definitely get my attention.

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  2. Dan
    For those of us that have children in the home, and are therefore often hampered with immediate solution to punishment, I think it is important that the threat of that punishment has to be kept alive with with a daily reminder. The way that Peter and I have used to keep it alive is every morning I remind him of what is due by taking a belt or paddle to his bottom while he dresses for work.
    A recently read that one wife will not have sex with her husband until the punishment has been done.
    The truth is couples need to maintain a dialogue. I confess we struggle but feel as long as we don't sweep this under the rug, we are ok. One thing that came out of our talks was Peter telling me honestly what
    works best for us both. Nothing is more annoying to a wife, especially a wife who is not the initiator of discipline to be told how to do it. I believe in bdsm it is referred to as topping from the bottom. Being the one who is doing the spanking, needs time and practice. To be told something I have done worked is
    when I can then go about making it work for us both.
    Anna

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    1. Hi Anna. Very good points. I have no doubt that school-age children are the #1 impediment to prompt punishment. That has certainly been the case for all of our DD marriage. Also the importance of positive feedback. You are the second Disciplinary Wife I know of who uses a few daily "reminder" swats to reinforce the F/m dynamic.

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  3. Hello Dan,
    As for immediate punishment or "on the spot" I am strongly in favor of it. Husbands need to know it's going to happen and happen quickly if you are going to change the rooted behavior we all deal with.There is some flexibility to it, for example I have given Jay extended pre-punishment corner time when I could not deal with it immediately. But immediately is better for him and you.Ultimately he gets spanked less and you get improved behavior or at least better behavior for a longer time.As for tears, I like them but consider them a bonus. When they come I know I have done my job but their absence doesn't mean the lesson has not been learned. Tears are not manly about pain but express emotions unleashed by being punished including regret, embarrassment real contrition and some shame.When I get tears it tends to be after a long protracted spanking,not necessarily the hardest or most severe he gets but lots of scolding and confession and complete capitulation to my authority.Tears for him are a complete surrender and every disciplinarian wants that. One other observation just about Jay and that is he is crying more often since he first cried. The first several crying episodes seemed to break the dam for him and to open him up and he has told me it is easier to cry than it was in the beginning.
    Marisa

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    1. Hi Marisa. Regarding what works for me personally, I tend to agree that immediate is best, though because of kids, it doesn't happen that often. While anticipation keeps the tension high, I'm not sure it adds to the deterrent effect. Particularly for things like showing disrespect, I tend to think rooting out the behavior would be better served if I were spanked immediately after each eye-roll or snotty comment.

      Regarding tears, I don't doubt that lack of "completely capitulation to her authority" is part of the problem, and I've also felt for awhile that longer sessions might be part of the formula. If I may ask, how long were you practicing DD before his "dam" finally broke?

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    2. It was a while, probably about five years.He really didn't want to cry and when it first happened,he was as surprised as was I.
      Marisa

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    3. I've been at it twice that long. Guess I am twice as stubborn.

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  4. Don't expect tears when you first begin to train him. Men are conditioned against crying and he will resist if he possibly can.If you do have a guy who lets down and cries you are blessed because your job disciplining will be much easier. But with most men it takes time. Today Tim rarely cries when I hairbrush him but a hard caning usually produces tears.In our all day monthly "seminar" he is spanked progressively starting with strap or brush and working up to the cane. He ALWAYS tears up by his caning usually becoming a sobbing begging mess ( which is exactly what he needs)I think one spanking after another just breaks down his resistance and he gives up the holding which stops crying.Crying is very healthy for most men. I would rather get it with less of a beating but that's what it usually takes and that's what he will get as long as he needs it.Not saying there isn't an emotional element to it. But if you spank him hard enough and long enough ,he will cry and once he learns to cry from being spanked as someone said earlier, he will cry more often.
    Pat

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  5. The answer, is “Yes”. I believe that the primary purpose for the use of external discipline, from the perspectives of both the Disciplinarian and the disciplined, is for the discipline to be effective. Therefore, whatever is effective – or whatever works, is the most appropriate discipline to use. For some couples, the most effective method might be for the Disciplinarian to vary the delivery of the punishment, sometimes delivering it on the spot, and at other times, sentencing the culprit to a delayed chastisement either at a stated time and place, or whenever the dominant is ready, rather than just using only one technique. For other couples, always delivering the punishment immediately, which may allow the parties to clear the air, and to assuage the wrongdoers guilt will be most effective. And for some, allowing the guilty party to linger for a short while in anticipation may be more effective, or even add an additional emotional connection to their punishment.

    In some cases, delivery of the delayed punishment may be forgotten. That may be a benefit to the naughty one, and they may also “forget about it.” For others, punishment earned but not delivered may result in the disciplined feeling neglected, and causing a feeling of guilt. If failure of the promised punishment results in feelings of neglect or guilt of the miscreant, they should “step up to the plate,” and remind the Disciplinarian of their promise, and request that the punishment be delivered.

    Additionally, the Disciplinarian may vary the type of punishment delivered. Although corporal punishment may be the desired punishment, the Disciplinarian may find that adding different types of punishment to their arsenal may increase their effectiveness. Denial of an adult's privileges and grounding or confinement to an apartment or bedroom without any entertainment or contact with anyone other than the partner for a time, may be a great deterrent to future misbehavior and will probably get the Disciplinarian's point across rather quickly. For maximum effectiveness, the level of the punishment should fit the level of the infraction. Even if spanking is used, an additional punishment may be warranted. For example, A Disciplinarian would get my attention, and her point across, by giving me over-her-knee spanking. Followed by a hard paddling, some time in the corner, and then grounding me for a day confining me to my bedroom with no magazines, books, computer, smart-phone or television access and no clothes other than my underwear (as a general rule – adult males confined to a room by themselves and without any clothes will probably spend a lot of time “fooling around with their equipment” as there really is nothing else to do – so confinement without clothes may not be the greatest deterrent to further misbehavior). Even if I thought that what I had done – or failed to do - was not a violation, after acceding to that punishment, I would not do it again without permission.

    As a comparison, a mechanic with toolbox full of tools will be able to fix more problems with a car than a mechanic who has just the rudimentary tools in his or her toolbox. A Disciplinarian who has a wide variety of techniques “in her toolbox” and uses them wisely, will probably be able to accomplish more behavior modification with less work than a Disciplinarian who does not vary her technique as much.

    Over time, each Disciplinarian will acquire their own preferences as to when and how to punish. Although the feedback regarding the wants and needs of the disciplined is important, it should not outweigh the Disciplinarian's own preference, and their perception of the effectiveness of the punishment. So to each their own, but the final decision should always rest with the Disciplinarian, because they have to ensure that the punishment fits the crime, and is an effective deterrent to any additional misbehavior.

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    1. You hit upon the biggest problem I see with delayed punishment -- the possibility that it does not happen at all.

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    2. Indeed, a punishment that doesn't happen for a while can be a problem. i wonder if She cares, and over time become more moody. Have to work on that! sara

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  6. I agree with most of the comments above (especially those from Marisa and Pat) that "on the spot" punishment is probably best - and I use it a lot, especially like today when (as usual over the weekend) L. has specific chores to perform... and fails to do so, in which case a brisk "reminder" with the martinet or the kitchen spoon will deliver the "message" - but there are many other occasions when a delayed punishment is warranted.

    The most obvious cases are when we are away from home, and a "warning" may be issued - the important thing being that punishment will occur ASAP, and not be subject to any "renegotiation"

    And then, there are the times (typically in response to more serious breaches) when I feel that a "waiting period" is needed - for L. to meditate on his (mis)behavior, and for me to consider what punishment is most appropriate. L. is usually required to spend that "waiting period" with his pants down and his derrière exposed standing or kneeling (in the corner or on the bed).

    L. may or may not cry when he gets whipped: it obviously depends, in part, on how severe his punishment is, but also (I think) on the extent to which he feels guilty about his (mis)behavior...

    J.

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    1. Hi J. The issue of guilt is an interesting one. I can understand how feeling remorse or guilt could amp up the ability go give in an cry. But, I also know that I often feel most truly dominated on those occasions when I feel the least remorse because I disagree about whether the punishment was really deserved. I need to think about that trade-off a bit more.

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    2. Dan: you may have a point there... J. makes a point of reminding me of her authority by punishing me (lightly but briskly) for "ordinary" misdemeanors - which occur often enough, but might be overlooked if she is in a benign mood. When, on the other hand, I know that I have commited a more serious offence, I tacitly acknowledge her authority with no need of a "reminder", and I accept the sharp punishment she delivers because I know I have deserved it.

      L.

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  7. As our kids fled the nest years ago, the house is ours except for the occasional visitor weekend so discipline could be easily be immediate but it never has been. Instead, it's kept formal with me always given notice, not so that I stew on it but so we both get time to think and prepare.

    I’m only ever disciplined at home, straight after dinner and after we’ve cleared away. Dinner time itself is for discussing the infraction or maintenance and for advising me of the discipline. I’m usually advised of a disciplinary evening on the day and generally with the parting kiss as I leave for work. It's possible to get a text or phone call but very rare these days and I know, if I’ve not heard by 4 o’clock or if I’m working away and won’t get home before 6pm (with good reason) I won’t be disciplined that evening.

    It’s trickier when we’re away, say on holiday. Discipline then is only ever as punishment but it maybe days before we’re back home. Much to my chagrin it is happening more days and probably because we've more time to spend away so we’ve had to come up various schemes and the one that works best is for me to be advised of discipline as soon after the infraction as possible and then, to put it out of mind as much as possible, we each privately make notes of anything relevant and seal them in separate envelopes and give them to each other, so she has mine and I have hers, to keep until we're home and can open them together. Making it work means every suitcase and our cars now have a discipline pack containing incident report forms, pens, envelopes and stamps and my job is to replenish any used.

    Dave

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    1. Hi Dave. I have always assumed that once the kids were gone, DD and particularly immediate punishments would almost automatically increase. Based on your comments, I guess I need to rethink that assumption. Thanks for the provocative post.

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    2. Dave, that sounds like a great way to deal with things.

      And yes, with kids away now, i thought more punishment would happen, but it's about the same. sara

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  8. I am a housekeeper in an FLR. I am spanked twice a day as maintenance, but the real punishment happens is usually in response to confession. Each evening at bedtime, after my evening spanking i kneel beside the bed and tell her about my day. It is usually a warm, loving time, with Mistress relaxing and, more often than not, getting a foot rub as i kneel. The conversation can be wide-ranging, but always includes a moment in which i am expected to confess to any shortcomings that may have occurred during the day. (Sometimes, if she is tired, she simply says "kneel and confess," but usually we chat pretty much like any other couple.) At confession I try to be thorough, because Mistress pays attention. If she deems my shortcomings serious enough (which isn't often), or especially if i neglected to mention something that she had noticed, she will prescribe a caning. The caning will happen whenever she feels like it, usually right away. But if she is tired, she will postpone the caning until the next day as part of one of my two maintenance spankings. Waiting, for me, is a combination of relief and dread, because unlike the maintenance spankings, these canings are severe and leave marks for days. To be honest, I can't say whether i prefer an immediate caning after confession, or if i prefer to wait. Either way, it is an unpleasant experience. And of course in our Mistress/slave relationship what i prefer does not matter. She does as she pleases. And that's what i like about being her slave, in spite of myself.

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    1. Hi Anonymous. Thanks for describing her system. Sounds like it works well for you

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  9. Dan

    As a wife who reads this blog weekly, feel the need for the first time to contribute. When a couple is raising a family delayed punishment goes with the territory. We are an older couple and there were many times
    our four kids forced a delayed punishment. In time they leave. Be patient. I used to say to my husband, it was their way of punishing him.
    As to tears, in my book it is much ado about nothing. What I care about more, is a sense of remorse and a true effort to alter the behavior that brought him over my knee. It is the act of submission, true submission that is I think what most women want.
    Thanks for a great blog. Both of us look forward to reading it. This past sunday my husband of 24 years
    read it to me while kneeling it the corner.

    An older, wiser and patient wife

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    1. Thanks for the kind words! Sorry for the delayed posting of your two comments. For some reason, they were caught in the spam filter.

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  10. My spankings are never on the spot. My wife will cite the violation and determines if and when the spanking will occur. It usually is within 24 hours. I cry most times for two reasons - 1) she knows the amount of physical pain I can endure and never stops until she reaches my tipping point and 2)The guilt I feel causes me emotional distress that leads to tears as well.

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    1. A girlfriend I am no longer with used what she called the 24 hour rule to guarantee most spanking were carried out. It was pretty simple. Within 24 hours of her announcing I would be spanked, it had to be completed or I was off the hook.That made her careful ordering discipline and very creative in finding ways to carry it out when we were not alone. I was responsible too for cooperating with her to make it happen within the 24 hours so it made administering punishment a priority in our relationship.In a seven year plus relationship there were only a handful of times the " statuette of limitation" ran out on us so it was pretty effective.
      Ed

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    2. Hi Anonymous, thanks for the comments on both immediacy and tears. You are lucky that your wife knows your limits and is determined to exceed them.

      Ed, that is a really interesting system. I have not been able to think of a great system to incentivize the disciplinary wives to spank promptly. Yours sounds like a great option. Thanks for contributing.

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  11. Dan
    A fan of your blog... I am a married lady 26 years this coming May. Am a wife who disciplines her man.
    Two things I want to comment on. We had four kids and timely punishment was only a dream. Now that
    they are all out of the house and all discipline is carried out in a timely manner. So patience!

    As to tears, in my mind that is much ado about nothing. Tears it seems to me is how the man can release
    the tension. I am only interested in improved behavior. I will say when the children were around one way I managed to punish was to send him up to our room for an hour or so in the corner. Nose to the wall.
    Keep up the good work

    A Happy Wife

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    1. Hi Happy Wife. Patience is not my strongest point, but I will try! Thanks for contributing.

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  12. Considering the fact that I am currently sporting a stellar example of a bruised bottom, I suppose I am in the proper frame of mind to comment. I am uncertain if tears are necessarily a goal of hers in guiding me, however that is an end she gets quite often. It startles me to realize there are men who take hard spankings, perhaps a lot harder than I have to get, and don't even cry? I am surprised at that, yet I lead a very sheltered existence. My entire world is these walls, and my wife's diapleasure, while alarmingly terrifying in the moment, it still has a devastating emotional impact. I want very much to please her, and disapointing her is never a very happy time for me. I never considered that guys would want to cry, but I will admit it helps me to do so. The release from that is enormous sometimes, and I feel oddly 100% better once it is all over with. In that sense, wanting to cry makes sense!

    As for the time frame of punishments, again it is a little startling to realize people have to wait sometimes for extended periods of time. That would eat me alive! Most of the time my punishments occur within 30 minutes of the offense. There are exceptions of course. We had to wait until we got off the plane one time, but I still got it in the backseat of the car on the way home (with the driver well aware of the proceedings). We had our neice over one time and I had to tell on myself over something. That sucked! We did wait about an hour or so on that one.

    I haven't been disciplined that much in a public setting, but now that my world has gotten a bit bigger, the possibility of that happening is more profound. I don't doubt she would hesitate. Super embarassing!

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    1. Hi Averageguy. Sorry to hear abut the bruises.

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    2. Spanked on the drive home from the airport? That's a pretty unusual scenario. Would you be willing to tell a little more about what happened there? Was the driver a family member?

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  13. Our children have long flown the coop. My wife and I both agree that discipline should come as soon as possible after the incident that gave rise to the discipline. However, there are times that is not possible, such as traveling, at a party, etc. The most important thing when that happens is that there is a certainty that a paddling will happen - no exceptions. Our situation is somewhat different than many as I have suggested a number of rules for the reason I want to stop certain behaviors. My wife has rules of her own. The key, we both agree these rules, if violated, must be punished - period

    As to tears. Growing up my father taught me to be tough. My coaches in sports taught me to be tough. I wanted to be tough and that hasn't changed. I don't cry no matter how hard or long I am paddled. I take whatever is dished out. I don't complain because I asked to be disciplined when I screw up. Trust me, after I am soundly paddled I have learned my lesson, appreciate the severity of the paddling that has definitely accomplished objective - I'm very well behaved and don't often repeat my offence. I don't need to cry for the paddling to be effective.

    Fred

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    1. Thanks, Fred. I grew up with a similar focus on toughness, and it seems to have had a similar impact.

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  14. I can best relate to "average guy"s comments. If I know that I have hurt her feelings or anything like that I am much more likely to cry during the spanking. It's less about the amount of spanking and more about the emotional state I am in.

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