Saturday, January 23, 2016

The Forum -- Vol. 122 -- Tears

Hi all.  Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum, our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships.

Last week's discussion was about multiple spankings -- spankings delivered in close succession.  That lead pretty naturally into some comments about tears, given the intensity and sheer painfulness of getting multiple, back-to-back blisterings.


Tears.  It is a topic that I consciously try not to overdo on this Forum, not because I am not interested in it.  Precisely the opposite. Left to my own devices, I would probably talk about it every week.  As I said when we last addressed this as a full topic (back in December of 2014), the prospect of tears was really the most significant driver of the emotional reaction I had when I discovered the Disciplinary Wives Club website.  And it was really what distinguished Domestic Discipline from anything else I had seen involving adult spankings.  The stories of men being brought to tears over their wives knees both fascinated me and truly, utterly terrified me.  The thought of letting go of control so thoroughly, submitting to another person so completely, that I would sob in front of my wife while she paddled my bottom was anxiety-inducing to an extent that is really hard to over emphasize.  Yet, the prospect of experiencing that kind of catharsis was also a major impetus for my decision to broach the topic of DD with her.  But, in doing so, I really did half-hope that she would not be interested, because the prospect of being brought to tears just terrified me so much.

So, here we are many years later, and I still have not cried, even as the result of spankings that I think anyone would acknowledge fall into the "severe" range.  That is what I said back in 2014, and it is where we still are today.  I am not alone.  The discussion over a year ago included a user poll, which showed that more than half the respondents had never cried at all, and only about a quarter had gotten to a point of real sobbing.

No crying
  49 (48%)
Yes - only a few tears
  26 (25%)
Yes - real sobbing
  27 (26%)

In the comments that started last week, Anna said she wanted to hear about what holds men back from crying.  I do think that the inability to let go emotionally is a big part of it, but not the only part.  For me, there seem to be a lot of factors at play, including:

(1) I have a lead bottom -- an abnormally high pain threshold.
(2) Spankings are sometimes severe in terms of impact but not always in terms of duration, because my bottom starts to bleed (usually very minor, but enough that it makes her stop).  I think the duration may be important.  Like I am already near my limit, but I know it is not even close to ending. 
(3) "Severity" can have its pros and cons, because some of her tools result in a numb bottom after several swats, rendering the rest of the spanking relatively ineffective.
(4) My wife doesn't do any real "warm up," and I think that is actually counter-productive, because instead of easing myself into submitting to the experience, I instantly "brace myself" and get into that "take it like a man" head space that is hard to get out of.  Similarly, her lectures at this point are not really stern enough to break me down emotionally before the spanking even starts, and I think that may be an important part of the formula.
(5) Finally, I do have a very deep-seated fear of embarrassment that keeps me from quite letting go fully and completely.

Now, it's not like there hasn't been progress over our time doing DD, and especially over the last year.  A big step forward was the rubber paddles we bought last year, which really hurt significantly more than any other tool she's used.  About a month ago, we had one session where I came pretty close, and it was the combination of the heavy rubber paddle, and a bottom that had gone unspanked for several weeks and was especially tender.  So, while I do agree that severity is not the only factor that goes into producing tears, I do think it is pretty important.  Though, it obviously is not itself sufficient in most cases.  Soldiers in battle may lose a limb and still not cry.  So, the physical pain clearly is only one part of the puzzle.


In terms of subtopics, I will leave this one totally wide open.  I am personally very interested in hearing personal stories from those of you who didn't cry initially, but somehow got there over time. What changed?  For those of you like me who haven't, is it something you hope will happen? I would also really like to hear from the wives about how they reacted to the tears.  Did it cause you any angst or lead you to retreat in any way from the process, because of concerns about hurting him "too much?"  Or, conversely, was it satisfying in some way, like it showed you were really taking care of business?


As I said, for me this really is THE domestic discipline topic that really gets my attention, so I am really looking forward to hearing from you all on this one.

I hope you all have a great week.

Dan

40 comments:

  1. Dan- Thanks for your posting, as always. Have to get here more often. A New Year's resolution, lol!?
    Fwiw, i think you hit great reasons on the head with your list of why you don't cry. Like you, i have not cried during my Wife's spankings. Although i was close one. And i think, like you, i'd like to break down and cry to get closer to Her this next year. It's scary and a vulnerable thing, but it would be so special! She'll also have to keep going on Her progression towards harder spankings, to break me. Thanks, sara

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  2. Hi Sara. Thanks for joining, and I hope that you have better luck keeping your resolution than I seem to have with mine!

    Vulnerable is really the right word, with the vulnerability what makes it scary. I have, by the way, taken some grief in a previous post for using the term "break me," but it's one that I still see as being relevant to what needs to happen. There needs to be some combination of severity, duration, stern demeanor on her part, and vulnerability on my part that finally results in real tears. Let's keep each other posted on how that goes this year. Thanks for joining.

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  3. Hi Dan, Like you I have never cried, but have a fantasy to be brought to tears. I think it was our up bring that said men don't cry. It would take a very long spanking and one I don't think my wife would ever give to break through. I am interested in your rubber paddle you have can you provide a link? Thanks John

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  4. Prior to our marriage among the subjects talked about was spankings. I told her I enjoyed them, she said spankings will be for punishment only, I conceded this and she conceded others to me. What I was not expecting was how good was at spankings. It was three or four months after our marriage she decided I needed a spanking, I did as told and waited in the bedroom, pants and underpants around my ankles. It was and is always OTK and I learned right off no way I would not be crying when she finished. She has a nice paddle that gets my attention quickly. All spankings end with me dancing around and then facing the wall either in the bedroom or kitchen. Takes sometime to get my crying under control. I accept this, I agreed to the spankings, it does help, but once your bare bottom is stinging and very warm you cannot help but to cry and as she saids act like a little boy who is being spanked by his Mommy and cannot help but to cry.

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    1. Hi Anonymous. Thanks for contributing. I wish that a stinging, warm bottom was all it took to bring tears in my case. Unfortunately, those two alone are not even close.

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  5. No tears today but another double session. This isn't normal. I can't seem to do anything right and don't know what's going on ?

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    1. That's too bad -- I suppose. Worse behavior than normal on your part? Growth on her part as a disciplinary wife?

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  6. Hi Dan,
    I don't cry from every spanking. But both women who have spanked me for discipline have gotten tears. One part of it is my pain tolerance. Thirty cracks with her hairbrush and I am on fire. The guys on spanking tube that just hold position and take it without making a sound just amaze me. But that's not me.With my wife part of it is that she expects tears from a severe spanking and has made that clear so to some extent I control how much I get by how long I take to let go to it and give up. She has given me permission to cry and I think some men hold back fearing what their wife will think about them reduced to tears and incoherent sobbing.My wife likes tears not because she is a sadist but because she thinks tears mean mean a real lesson was taught.The other part of it is that sometimes a spanking goes on and on until I believe it is hopeless and it will never stop.I know that's irrational but that's how it feels sometimes and when that feeling it will never stop comes into my mind I soon break down and cry. Also I want to say it is easier to cry each time you do it and it happens earlier in the spanking.Crying is a natural response to being punished with a spanking. If you aren't crying at least occasionally you are missing part of the release that comes from a good spanking
    Alan

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    1. Hi Alan. Believe me, I know I am missing part of the big DD experience. One of the difficulties is the pain threshold you mention. Yours is low and it helps you get to tears. Mine is really high, and that is certainly part of the problem. As an example that the severity is not lacking, she really wore me out last night, with a leather strap, the wooden fraternity paddle, and the heavy rubber strap. I am sitting on a very sore, bruised bottom today. But, no tears.

      The ability to leave yourself open and vulnerable is also clearly part of it, but one that also may be easier said than done. I went into last night's session telling myself that I would try to focus on giving in to it, rather than resisting or taking it like a man. Still, it just didn't happen. But, I really felt like something else was going on last night. I just felt sort of distant from the whole process for some reason.

      I hope that if and when this does happen, my wife will share your wife's attitude. I *think* that now she will. A few years ago, I think it might have made her feel like she had gone too far and hurt "too much." I think she is now past that point, but it's hard to say until it happens.

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    2. Hi Dan,
      There are possibly two ways to bring tears to a male who at some level has been conditioned to resist them. One is the series of punishments Anna imposed on Peter described last week, three serious spankings in a day or so, the last a post orgasm spanking. I suspect Peter knew the lesson being taught required him to cry and the combination of pain combined with feeling it would never end brought the tears.If I was in Peter's situation I would have expected a fourth or more spankings unless I surrendered to her.But there is another way that tears come which relies less on the severity of the punishment than the emotions you are feeling. These include not just regret but embarrassment,contrition and shame.For me that comes mostly from my wife's scolding and my sense of how bad I have behaved and how ashamed I should be to have to be spanked to make me behave and realizing how upset she is. That sense of deep shame and contrition is not present in every spanking but with one exception it has been there for every spanking i ended up crying. If a woman combines severity of the sort Peter experienced with a sense of shame and embarrassment, she is going to move mountains
      Alan

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    3. Hi again. I think it is clearly right that there are at least two routes to tears, maybe more.

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  7. I have only been reduced to tears once during a spanking by my wife. It was a few years ago, I had left my previous job to set up my own business ( with my wife's support) however, the increased workload and pressure of of building a fledgeling company meant that my regular weekly maintainance spankings fell by the wayside for nearly a year. I became more stressed and as is my wont at such times, I became withdrawn an irritable and found myself frequently being short and arguementitive with my wife and children.

    Then finally one day after a rather heated exchange with my wife- she snappped! and exclaimed that it was enough ,she would take no more of this. She grabbed me by my ear and marched me to the bedroom once inside she locked the door and put the key in her pocket and said we are not leaving this room until you have had your bottom well and truely spanked. She was furious, and I was quite reluctant but I complied and submitted for my spanking.

    My wife always spanks hard but this time I knew she meant it! It was unbearable but like others here I tried to hold it in until she started lecturing me as she spanked me she was terribly upset and explained how my behaviour was hurting her and my kids she was in tears as she was speaking - that was the breaking point for me; realising what a d*ck I'd been and how guilty I felt about it , I burst into tears and bawled like a baby. She kept on spanking for a long while more but I knew Ideserved it and did my best to present my bottom to her for maximum effect. It was a wonderful moment for both of us and cleared the air ready to start afresh. She has never let me go for too long without a spanking since then and I have never cried since.

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    1. Hi Anonymous. I am surprised it happened only once. I always assumed that if it happened once, it would become easier thereafter.

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    2. Hi Dan

      I think the reason I haven't cried since is because my wife spanks me regularly (once a week minimum and sometimes daily) for both maintainance and discipline, so there has never been a prolonged build up of stress and tension and the associated behaviour as on that occasion. Matters are dealt with promptly and the air cleared.

      She has also evolved in her strictness and spanking severity over the years and keeps me in chastity for periods which she may extend as she feels appropriate, typically between a week to a month.So I am kept well in hand and we have a pretty calm home and family life- so I guess I don't have anything to cry about! If that makes sense.

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  8. Dan

    I say this with love....taking it like a man! Really? I will say what I have said to Peter so many times
    " Be man enough to show your love just how vulnerable you are. Exposing our emotions
    takes balls.

    Love you
    anna

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    1. Hi Anna. Now, I didn't say that I *wanted* to take it like a man. But, when confronted with sudden pain, that is where I go and once there, is is harder to get out of that most women would think. Regardless of how much has changed in the socially acceptable gender roles over the last few years, men still are conditioned not to cry and women can still do it pretty much any time without there being any long-lasting social stigma attached to it. I agree with you that exposing takes balls, but it takes more than that. It takes finding a way to overcome a few decades of internal and external conditioning.

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    2. Dan
      My Anna can be brusk at times. I understand where you are coming from. When you are ready it will happen. I know that from experience. I won't preach, I know from reading your words it will happen.
      Peter

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    3. Hi Peter. No offense taken. I hope you're both well, and hope (sort of), that you're right that it will happen at some point.

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  9. I shed some tears when I put my coon hound down at the vet last year. I don't know if me going hunting with her for all those years made me more of a man or the tears made me less of a man. I don't believe they equate.
    I do love your blog.

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    1. Thanks for the compliment. I had to put one of my dogs down a couple of years ago. I didn't just shed a few tears. I bawled like a baby. I can still tear up when I think about him.

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  10. These are some great posts. As one who hasn't cried, i guess i'm taking away that it is "after care" closeness that i want, to feel closer to my Wife if i cried. Cathartic moment.
    Seems the painful paddling/caning by itself isn't enough for many of us, but when combined with signs that your Wife is *truly angry* or when She points out how our shortcomings have also hurt our kids/families, it can become overwhelming and make the tears start to flow. Combining a painful spanking and, in our vulnerable state, a fear of what else might be in an angry Wife's mind can be trigger. I still hope to get there, but cringe at the thought, too. Thanks, sara

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    1. Hi sara. I think that's right -- the pain is a necessary but, for some of us, not sufficient catalyst for tears. I'm sure innate tearfulness also plays a part. Some people just cry easier than others. Like you, I want it though also cringe.

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  11. I have cried during and after some spankings, but not for the majority. Personally, I think it is at least 90% emotional and not that much about pain threshold or even severity for that matter. True crying is about remorse for me, and releasing the guilt over the fact that I needed to be punished. When I have really disappointed her and I can see that in her I am most likely to cry. I wouldn't be in a a DD relationship if I didn't feel deep down that I need the punishment, and I wish I cried each and every time I was spanked, but I am not always ready for that emotionally. --Easy

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    1. Thanks, Easy. I would imagine that most men in these relationships have that same feeling of really needing to be punished and needing to pay that penance.

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  12. Strangely (but perhaps not surprisingly), the first time - and, actually, the only time - I ended up crying hot tears and sobbing uncontrollably was when I got my first taste of what a 'real' spanking was (I had never been spanked at home). I was 18 at the time, and had met this 'older' woman (at 36 - twice my age!) when hitchhiking in the UK. She promptly introduced me to the hairbrush and to a particularly nasty leather strap, and soon reduced me to tearful begging for mercy!

    When (four years later) I met the woman I would later marry, I discovered (with mixed feelings) that she, too, had a "disciplinarian" turn of mind - which I soon experienced! - but, even though she could wield the strap or the crop with gusto, I was able to (somewhat) control my tears.

    The same is true for the (frequent) paddlings or whippings I get from the woman I married after the untimely death of my first wife. She knew (and sometimes watched) how I was disciplined, and so was ready to deal with any misbehavior on my part, just as firmly as what I had been getting from N. - but, whether or not, I have grown used to it (or whether my backside has gotten tougher over the years) I hardly ever cry as much as I did that first time!

    L.
    whether or

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    1. Hi L. You seem to have had a wonderful track record of attracting women who are attracted to this lifestyle. Congratulations.

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    2. That first experience was unsolicited (and memorable). When I shared it with N. after we had been dating for a while, she giggled but took it as a hint (which I guess it was) and - well, you know!... J., for her part, acquired her disciplinary instincts from listening to (and watching) N. - who probably also told her about my "first experience" in the UK...

      L.

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  13. I have not written in about 2 years because all my experience in FLR happen about 40 years ago before anyone heard of FLR or DD. I do not think the terms were invented then.

    Answering the question of the week, I cried during all of my spanking, it was a real cleansing experience for me. I should add that I am an emotional person and cry easily, more so the older I get.

    I read you every week, great job, keep up the good work.

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    1. Hi tdk. Good to hear from you. Thanks for the kind words. It is very interesting for me to think about the fact that F/m discipline was going on 40 years ago, before there were these labels for it. Hope you will keep reading and keep speaking up on this Forum.

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  14. Hello Dan!

    I don't think tears are a pain thing. It's more of an emotional release thing, and therefore, some people don't or can't cry. "Letting go" and exposing one's self emotionally isn't an easy task to begin with, but most males, especially in the US are trained from childhood that "men don't cry" and it is a sign of weakness. I've never managed to spank Shilo to tears, no matter how severe the spanking(s), but I've seen him cry for other reasons. I hope everyone is doing well

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  15. Hi Dan;

    My best advise is to print out the last two weeks of your blog and give them to Angela and ask her to help you on this New years resolution. Don't tell her how to solve the problem, and don't even give advise. Let her decide what to do, and follow her lead. (In other words, give away this problem).

    Taking care of the of their partner (or spouse), and helping them reach new limits is what dominants do. Let her do it. What do you have to lose? This is called 'delegating up'.

    Good luck.

    Jack

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  16. Tears -
    When Anne first agreed to spank me there were a couple of differences from our current situation. First, she didn't spank as hard or as long. She was getting used to it and was afraid of really hurting me. Second, she was more likely to announce how many spanks I would get, permitting me to 'tough it out.' In addition, she wouldn't express any emotion over what I had done and its impact on her. Things are different now.

    First, because of our son, most of the time spankings happen the day after or maybe a couple of days. The upshot of that is that I have anticipation. Knowing that we will have the privacy for me to be spanked, I must wear white briefs that day. It emotionally connects me to feelings of when I was 10 (what I and more than 90% of my friends wore at the time.) All day when I go to the bathroom I get the reminder that I am being spanked that evening, and I think about why.

    More anticipation occurs throughout the day. When I reach my car at the end of the day
    I call my wife and tell her I'm on my way home. She will explicitly tell me that she plans to blister my bare bottom when I get home. I get to think about it the whole drive home. I have the same feeling in my gut and tingling in my bottom as I did as a kid.

    Then there is the event. Sometimes I am sent to stand in the corner; sometimes I am told to pull down my pants and get in position and call her when I am ready. More times I am told to follow her.

    When we get to the bedroom she will now make me look her in the eye while she tells me what I've done AND how it made her feel or how it hurt her. Then I'm told to pull down my pants and underwear. This again makes me feel again like a 10 year old. I'm not embarrassed or aroused. My hands shake because I know that after my shorts are down my bottom will hurt.

    Anne has really learned to spank. She know that even if the skin breaks I will not die. If I have had multiples in the day or week, she knows it takes more self control to stay or move back into position. She waits and continues. And she is now willing to take advantage of bruises or blisters already there and will concentrate on lighting them on fire again. Sometimes now she will get me crying and then determine how many spanks I will get.

    I don't always cry, but most of the time yes. It is almost always a combination of the emotion of how I let her down or hurt her and her willingness to spank hard.

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  17. Dan

    Two excellent responses Dan!

    anna

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  18. As a spanked husband who always cries, I can say for me the crying is 100% emotional and not a result of the pain. I can't explain why I cry and therefore why those who can't don't. I only know there is something in the way my wife speaks to me, the ritual of having my pants pulled down, the waiting, the fetching of the implement, the deep feelings that well up in me as I contemplate why I am being spanked. It taps into deep memories and triggers emotions long ingrained. My eyes begin to water up long before the spanking has started. The blows to my unprotected and vulnerable backside merely reinforce the emotions that are already there and cause the release.

    I know everyone is different, but I am inclined to believe if you are not already emotionally vulnerable to crying then there is no severity of spanking that will bring you to tears. It is not pain, but emotion that drives crying.

    Ask yourself, is there anything else that makes you cry? Any movies cause your eyes to water? Anything thought that makes you tremble? If the answer is no, I suspect you wife could beat your bottom till it fell off and you wouldn't shed a tear.

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    1. For me personally, yes, there are other contexts in which I will cry. Certain movies can do it. Some songs never fail to. So, perhaps there is hope for me yet.

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    2. i do think the idea of trying to think of something that will make you cry could help push you over the edge. hmmm :) sara

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  19. Dan - Don't feel too bad, I think for many women as well as men getting to tears from a punishment is a process of allowing oneself to be vulnerable. I've heard from multiple women that they don't cry from a punishment or that it's a rare occurance. It takes time to figure out what will get you there and not everyone does or needs to.

    I had this problem in the beginning, I'm an emotional person but I didn't feel much of anything emotionally during my spankings for the first month or so. I was just doing my best to deal with the pain and get through it. I was actually afraid of crying because I always ended up in a really dark place. But we felt my punishments weren't really sinking in with only a physical component. Dave's lectures had been pretty controlled up to this point, but one day he got really frustrated that spankings weren't really working. His frustration was more about the situation than my behavior but it really got through to me. And that's how we found our magic disciplinary formula.

    Everyone's formula is different. I think if it is something you really want, and are striving with your HoH to figure out how to get there, you'll find a solution. I wish you the best of luck allowing your internal walls to come down.

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    1. I think one of the reasons I did not cry at first, in fact a reason we decided to use spanking, was that Anne would not even say she was pissed with me. I believe that a benefit of our spankings is that she will now express this, even when she decides I don't deserve a spanking. But getting to that point means that when I get a spanking, I am emotionally connected and that both the pain and emotional regret make my hands shake while I pull down my pants. Another plus of this is that we communicate much better about things that are not spanking issues.

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