Saturday, December 26, 2015

The Forum - Vol. 118 - Rules

Hi all.  Sorry for the late start today.  I would love to attribute it to Christmas travel or something of that sort.  Or, just forgetfulness.  In an even worse display of a "senior moment," I sort of lost track of the day of the week.  Apparently, not working much throws off my entire sense of time, because I somehow got it into my head that today was Friday.  I didn't realize my error until I logged on to check for comments, and saw that Hermione had updated her weekly brunch, which happens on Saturdays.   Well, now I am thoroughly bummed knowing I have one less weekend day ahead of me than I thought!

Not having thought of any topics myself, I am going to take Fred's timely suggestion that we talk about rules.  Many of us in disciplinary relationships maintain some list of bad behaviors that are likely to earn a session with her (or his) paddle.  When we first began this DD journey, we tried to build in some formality, with a list of prohibited behaviors, which was accompanied by a presumptive minimum number of swats for each offense.  Over the years, some of the formality has dropped away.  Though, I'm not sure the number of rules, officially recognized or otherwise, has dropped much. In fact, this last year arguably included an increase, as she had never before punished me for things like not doing the dishes.

In Fred's comment, he included the following list of rules/infractions:

Must control temper(very serious if wife is recipient).
Demean or criticize wife (on golf course or in public -very serious)
Must be considerate.
Must be nice to wife's friends (including some I don't like)
Must not dominate conversations when with others
Must limit alcohol to two drinks when out.
Must not drive after drinking more than two drinks.
Must treat wife and other respectfully.
Must go to the gym at least twice each week.
Must not start smoking again.
Must not interrupt wife while talking on telephone.
Must do specific chores around the house.
Must listen to wife when she wants to talk to me.
Must not treat wife like a secretary.
Must not drive unsafely or too fast when with wife, family or friends.
Must never be critical of own children when with others.
Must not be overly negative or grumpy especially if it affects wife or others.
Behavioral indiscretions that I should know better than engage in.

Our list would be pretty similar, though perhaps a little more vague.  Things that will usually earn me a paddling include:

--  Too much alcohol (more than 2 or 3 drinks)
--  Showing her disrespect
--  Not doing various chores around the house.
--  Doing or saying something inconsiderate that hurts her or the kids' feelings

We talk about things like not working out regularly, and work-related behavior like losing my temper or getting into a quarrel with someone I shouldn't, as qualifying for a spanking.  In reality, however, those things never really seem to result in punishment independently, i.e. they are punished only as one more item on a list that includes something that has an immediate impact on her.

How about you? What rules govern your disciplinary relationship?  What are the big "no-no's" that land you on the Naughty List?

I hope you all had a great Christmas!  Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Dan

37 comments:

  1. Most (but not all) of those misdemeanors would earn me a spanking -from J's own hand, from her hairbrush or from the kitchen spoon - and some might call (in my experience) for her using the martinet, the rattan cane, the leather belt or the riding crop...

    L.

    J.

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    1. I endorsed L's comment. He has indeed learned to avoid some of the "infractions" on Fred's list - but, as he notes, that still leaves many forms of misbehavior which call for the sort of "appropriate" punishment - of which his derrière will keep the marks for a while...

      J.

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    2. Hi L. and J. I think some men may worry that if they really improve their behavior, a disciplinary relationship they have come to value might end. Fat chance. Our Disciplinary Wives are pretty good at raising the bar. :-)

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  2. Hi Dan,

    The creation of a list of rules was the very first thing Mistress K. and I did when we set out on our adventure. She asked that I prepare the list on my own first, then together we would edit/add to/pare down the list according to whatever Mistress K. felt needed to be the final edits. That list, as it exists in it most current form, is on my blog under the title of "Throwback Thursday", should you have an interest.

    Our/my list of rules contain several different things. There are the obvious things used to measure for compliance, protocol and routine expectations. Recurring, "always on" rules such as I am required to keet mt genital and bottom smoothly shaved at all times. I am expected to become naked while in her presence whenever we are alone together. I am always strictly forbidden to touch myself in any sexual whatsoever without permission or supervision. I am required to have a hot, fresh, perfectly poured cup of coffee available for Mistress K. when she awakens. You get the idea .....

    The big "no-no's" are .... in no particular order ... I must maintain discretion at all times and to never, ever allow our lifestyle choice to become fodder for friends and community. I will not allow emotions that have built from outside of our relationship to cause me to affect our relationship. A bad day at the office is NEVER a reason for me to disappoint Mistress K. There are others, but the biggest of them all probably is ejaculation without permission. Mistress K. has made it very clear from the very beginning that it is my sole responsibility to NEVER allow myself to become so aroused that I cannot control my ejaculation. This has only happened once in our relationship and let me tell you brother, the spanking that followed was awful.

    SHIP

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    1. Hello Dan and Merry Christmas,
      My rules are pretty simple. When Jay and I embarked on home discipline, we both agreed that a mutual power struggle was harming our relationship and that he needed me to be in charge while I needed to be in charge. From that comes our primary rule, which is that he must not EVER question my authority once I have decided to exercise it. That doesn't just apply to accepting punishment but also obeying me in everyday situations such as what restaurant we go to, parties we attend, tasks he needs to perform etc.If he ever gets confused about this I state clearly I am giving him a "command" and that avoids any miscommunication.Of course I have other rules that can change over time depending on his behavior He is not permitted to orgasm without my explicit permission( unless he is traveling and then he must report it). His social drinking is limited to two drinks a day and he can lose that privilege.I don't tolerate disrespect to myself or my family members and he must control his temper.Those are the basics but they give him a sense of his boundaries and the consequences for breaching them.I work very hard to make it clear to him what I expect and to be consistent in punishing him when he disappoint me.I believe this gives Jay a sense of security and allows him to surrender to my authority,avoiding any of the power struggle that once plagued us.
      Marisa

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    2. Hi SubHub. I admit, I just don't get the ejaculation control thing, though from the comments it seems to be a part of many disciplinary relationships. The connection between more frequent orgasms and lower incidents of prostate cancer seems to be pretty well-established medically. There also seems to be pretty solid evidence that as we age, erections are kind of "use it or lose it." The fewer you have, the fewer you are likely to have in the future, and the lower their quality. So, I don't see orgasm denial as being in either her long-term interest, or mine. But, to each his or her own.

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    3. Hi Marisa. It is interesting that you bring up a rule that you choose things like restaurants. I had an exchange with someone today in which we talked about how much smoother things work when someone makes those decisions. It doesn't really work that way with us, and I wish it did. I can't count how many hours we have spent within the family trying to make decisions about what restaurant to go to on a Friday night. No one wants to be seen as imposing their choice, so it just goes on and on and on.

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  3. Our rules include both my responsibilities and hers. Since she makes the rules, the first person in the context of the rules refer to her.

    Her House Rules

    1. No masturbation to ejaculation. This is the highest offense.
    2. No ejaculation without permission.
    3. No sexual self gratification without permission.
    4. No lying or attempting to deceive. No omissions.
    5. No pornography of any kind.
    6. Treat me with respect and consideration, the way you would want to be treated.
    7. Do your share of the regular (daily & weekly) workload around the house.
    8. Do specific chores & projects around the house by an agreed upon deadline.
    9. I will be the judge of your performance.
    10. You will be punished and/or disciplined when you don't meet expectations and will accept the punishment without rebellion.


    1. I am responsible for enforcing the rules in a timely manner.
    2. I am responsible for administering the appropriate punishment and discipline.
    3. I must be aware. I have to ask specific questions and perform spot checks.
    4. A potential offense which requires judgement is deemed a violation of the rules.
    5. I will not apologize for enforcing the rules.

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    1. My wife is strict about masturbation so i understand that rule. But not allowing you to cum when making love seems cruel to me unless you are being punished for something. Otherwise your rules are a lot like ours. Accepting punishment without rebellion is one of her biggies which took me a while to learn
      Ed

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    2. HI Anonymous. I like that your rules specifically include responsibilities for the disciplinarian.

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    3. Ed, I understand your perspective on orgasm denial. However, I would point out that male orgasm has an undeniable relationship to behavior. She knows, and I will admit, that my behavior and concern for her is impacted by my having an orgasm. It doesn't mean that I don't get to ever orgasm, it does mean that she decides if she is willing to put up with the inconsiderate behavior that can result shortly afterwards. Sometimes she would rather have the nicer guy around, rather than the one that rolls off to sleep and ignores her needs...

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    4. I control Jay's orgasms, but he has plenty of them partially because I share Dan's medical concerns. It's the control that matters not the number of times he is allowed to cum. And if Jay ever rolled off to sleep on me, he would receive a post orgasm spanking he would never forget. We are long past that sort of behavior.
      Marissa

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    5. My wife requires me to ask permission before I ejaculate when we are making love but she usually allows me. I love the fact that she wants to control my cock and that it's important to her to do so.( her cock actually) but I don't think it would work long term if she denied me for long periods.I agree with Marisa that the control is what is important but a wife or partner needs to use good judgment when exercising that control.Controlling a man's cock is a form of discipline and in my case a lesson in self discipline that has helped me largely overcome a destructive masturbation habit and avoid the porno that fed it.
      Alan

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  4. Dan,

    Our rules seem to fit into four broad categories. In fact, I have included some of your specific rules you listed that fit within 3 of these categories below:

    Personal & Family Safety:
    Must not drive after drinking more than two drinks.
    Must not drive unsafely or too fast when with wife, family or friends.

    Disrespect:
    Must not interrupt wife while talking on telephone.
    Must listen to wife when she wants to talk to me.

    Disobedience:
    Must do specific chores around the house (failure to do so would be considered disobedient, because it is a standing order).
    Must limit alcohol to two drinks when out (this is not a “safety” issue as much as it is an obedience issue).

    One category we use which you do seem to list any offenses for is:

    Dishonesty:
    Complete honesty is expected at all times. That includes truthfully, accurately and FULLY answering all questions, as well as timely and voluntarily disclosing all other matters that are considered material to the marital relationship (like where I have been, who I was with, what I did, etc).

    Carl H

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    1. Hi Carl. You're right. Honesty has not been an explicit rule for us, and it probably should be. I have been known to lie about, for example, how many drinks I have had at happy hour. That really should be a separate offense.

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  5. Dan,
    We decided against a list of rules because it would be too specific and we’d be forever adding to it. Instead I am bound by a code of good conduct that covers many of the things in your list as well as some that aren’t but at a general level which gives her license to interpret as she sees fit.

    We’ve also a discipline contract that has our signed consent and the practical aspects of discipline such as her expectations and requirements of me, deferrals when we’ve guests or when transgressions occur away from home, maintenance and management of the discipline room and its equipment, the upkeep of records and the contract itself.

    We review, update and renew it every year between Christmas and New Year in time for January 1st and this year, it’ll be after breakfast on New Years eve.

    Health and happiness in 2016

    Dave

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    1. Hi Dave. That sounds like a great arrangement. It's great that you review and renew it yearly.

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  6. House Rules
    1: Rosa is to be treated with respect at all times.
    2: Certain properties belonging to Rosa may only be used with her permission.
    3: Hyperactive behavior, impatience, whining, or sulking are not allowed.
    4: Car doors are to be kept locked, and Rosa’s car treated with care. Cutting across parking lanes is not allowed.
    5: The bathroom commode is to be kept clean.
    6: Rosa’s feet are to be regularly groomed and pampered.
    7: The bed is to be made each day.
    8: The butter compartment is to be kept closed after use.
    9: KDP is to make sure Rosa’s coffee and water are ready in the morning and prepare any breakfast or lunch Rosa requests. He is also obliged to perform any other duties Rosa requests.
    10: The use of the laptop for recreational purposes requires Rosa’s permission under her guidelines.
    11: KDP will adhere to whatever dress code or other submissive ‘reminders’ Rosa requests for any particular day.
    12: KDP must keep himself groomed according to Rosa’s guidelines.
    13: KDP is to provide courteous reminders and explanations to Rosa when necessary to prevent misunderstandings.
    14: Rosa always has the right to spank KDP regardless of behavior.
    15: Rosa may appoint KDP as a “spanking proxy” for herself or anyone else for any reason at all.
    16: Rosa may add, remove, or amend any rule at any time without question.

    In addition, there is a separate list for rules with my step-daughter, which is essentially 'similar' to the ones involving respect, calm attitude, and also allows for food treats and foot care. Her recourse for transgressions is to fill out a "Discipline Slip" (we got them online from a school supplier) and let her mother handle the punishment.

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    1. I'm fascinated by the Discipline Slip. I've seen some on-line. but custom made for DD purposes, not something for real schools. Does it refer to corporal punishment?

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    2. No they are generic. We write in the nature of the punishment.

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    3. And by way of explanation, since there has been some discussion here already on orgasm control, Rule #2 refers specifically though euphemistically (since these rules are posted on the inside of our bedroom door) to me not being allowed to touch myself sexually.....let alone orgasm. This was a tough one, and still can be since sometimes you can sort of drift there if not careful. But in fairness a brief absentminded 'drift' touch is not punished. Only if I linger after realizing what I'm doing.

      As for frequency of release? It varies. It also depends on the release or rather its effect. I may be allowed more frequent ejaculations when the ones I'm getting are ruined or what we call 'half-o's '. (Some really ruined O's we joke about being 'quarter-o's'). These usually take off the edge but leave me feeling still subby and not fully satisfied.

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    4. Re frequency of release and control there of we have sometimes played a dice game first I have to a die this first die determines how many dice my wife will roll so she may roll 1 to 6 dice the sum of the numbers she rolls is the number of days I have to wait to climax

      A variation on this we have also done is that the sum is the number of climaxes she has to have before I can have one if I do a good job then the number of days can be lessened worse if she is tired however

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  7. I wanted to clarify a couple of things in the rules I posted. Two of them I suggested, to wit, going to the gym and not smoking. My wife thought both were good rules and we adopted them. Have not violated either and it has been several years now.

    A rule I forgot to post which I have, unfortunately,violated too often, is being overly impatient with my wife in many areas (getting dressed to go somewhere, holding up a foursome on the golf course, etc.)

    I think an interesting add on to this topic after the discussion on rules, is what rules do we most frequently violate? Most I never violate, but temper, being critical, and being impatient still occur, but not often,

    I suspect many contributors to this blog actually like to be spanked. I don't. My goal is to improve my faults to where I don't need a good paddling to remind me I'm out of line. When I do get out of line it almost always causes my wife to be upset, and I don't want that. Giving her the power to blister my behind not only balances the power between us, but it cleanses my guilt, and clears to air going forward. My wife has learned the importance of delivering paddling's/strappings that I don't forget and the behavior punished is rarely, if ever, repeated.

    Will I be perfect going forward and end our DD arrangement. You wouldn't want to bet money on that happening. Plus my wife is very comfortable in her role as my disciplinarian and has come to enjoy the balance of power that exists in our relationship.

    I have enjoyed this blog and particularly the ladies who participate, and I hope those ladies who are thinking about a form of DD that suits you and your husbands needs becomes a reality because it works.

    Fred

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    1. Those thing you violate the most are way up on my list, too. Thanks for the encouragement to any DD-curious wives out there.

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    2. So many good posts here. The "being impatient" thing screams at me as something i must improve upon. My Wife is surprisingly tolerant, now that i think about it. I could be punished far worse for that. Daily stress for me really is not a good excuse. Thank you. sara

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  8. My entire existence is about rules, and consequences for failing to adhere to such. Im a little shy about sharing a number of them, so maybe only a few...

    I must carry and answer my phone if she calls, if it rolls to voicemail. There is no excuse accepted, I get a spanking.

    I cant leave the house for any reason without her permission and knowing where Im going. No excuses or I get spanked.

    I can drive myself now, but NO tickets of any kind. No excuses, and you guessed it, I get spanked.

    Im never to be late arriving home or to meet her. She is a little narrow minded so you probably can guess what I get for being even one minute late. Sigh...

    Complaining, arguing, or in any way being non-compliant about any punishment (even when its just being grounded to the house) results in... You guessed it, another and completely seperate spanking. Sigh...

    This may seem extreme. And judging by the reaction I have received from my other posts, I now also believe that to be the case. But on the other hand, judging by the other posters here, I would suppose I get punished very rarely in comparison. That is likely her impetus for believing spanking to be the number one effective punishment for me. Of course, it has proven to be the kiss of death for me, that I am incapable of being stoic about it. I cry every single time, and there is no hiding that! Oh well. All I have to do is behave right? Easier said than done.

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    1. "Easier said than done." No disagreement here.

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  9. I find it odd that people are allowed to carry on drinking after numerous times coming home beligerant and such?

    After looking over other peoples rules, it seems very democratic and fair to a fault!

    Im sure no one is complaining, but then everyone came to this in a different way than I did, Im sure. As long as everyone is happy, good for you!

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  10. Combine a lull with major rule violation (losing my temper with her) prompted two spankings on Monday. They were bad enough to leave me in tears, but nothing like yesterday.i spent the better part of an hour with my pants down. The pillow was wet with my tears and I have lots of bruises. Yesterday also saw a lot of broken, wet blisters. The closeness after and the putting it behind us is the best#

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    1. Hi Fred. Sorry to hear that. Sounds like the after effects made it almost worth it. Almost.

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  11. I started discipline to fix one problem that we both agreed needed fixed and that was his temper tantrums.So we stared with one rule, he throws a tantrum and he gets spanked just like the spoiled naughty boy he was acting like. What made that work was his shame about his behavior and my determination to stop them.From tantrums we built out to other things like his procrastination, sloppy habits at home and language. We didn't call these "rules" but problems that needed fixed. In every case starting with his tantrums, he agreed there was a problem before I got involved so there was very little resistance from him to being disciplined. Even today we don't really have rules but standards he is expected to honor.
    Holly

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    1. Hi Holly. I hope you had a great Christmas. Standards versus rules is a good way to distinguish the approach. Like yours, ours is really more standards based, though there are some rules here and there. But even the rules really reflect a way to try to quantify the expectation inherent in the standard.

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  12. This may seem silly to some but an important one for me is the gas tank, and servicing of my car. It is also the husbands responsibility to keep the outside of my vehicle washed within reason. He is responsible for keeping the gas gauge above 1/4 at all times, and the majority of the time it is to be 1/2 or above. After only one occurrence where I had to stop to fill up when I was already pressed for time this has not happened again. It's amazing how motivating a bath brush, and leather strap can be. We have it in clear writing, I drive that thing, and tell him if I suspect a problem, he is to keep it serviced. I don't care if he does this himself, or takes it to the shop, but when I turn the key on my car, I want to hear the motor start, and it is to get me where I am going, or else.

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    1. Hi Cassandra. Doesn't sound silly at all. Welcome, and thanks for joining in.

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  13. I began spanking my husband 20 years ago. He was completely stressed out with his business and one day asked me to take over as the head of the house and to spank him when he was a naughty boy. I didn't really want to at first, but after a few weeks of being served obediently by my new baby boy I began to enjoy myself. Nowadays I have him strip naked to scrub the kitchen or bathroom floor and I whip his bottom every time he misses a bit. It's such a different world now. He does exactly as I tell him, I do as I please, and it works so well. We are much happier together and he is much more polite to me when we're out. He still has his naughty moments, that's when I tell him, 'Right my baby boy, we're going to have an Obedient Day on Saturday.' Obedient days are when he strips naked and kneels before me. I tie his wrists to his ankles. Stuff a pair of my panties in his mouth and blindfold him. Then I leave him like that as I watch TV or go for a walk. When I think it's time I'll take my whip out, release his feet and pull him over my knee for a really hard spanking that includes his thighs, calves and the soles of his feet. He really does not like me whipping his feet and he cries like a silly baby, 'Oh please, no mummy. I'll be an obedient baby boy, I promise.' I just laugh at that. I've heard it all before. For the rest of that day he will be obedience itself, scrubbing the toilet, washing dishes and completing the list I have made or he knows what to expect. I'll sit back with a glass of bubbly and enjoy being totally spoiled by my totally submissive baby boy.

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  14. My husband and I and only just getting started into an FLR, but we have quite a few years under our belts in alternative relationships. We say life is too short to be vanilla. But to all outside eyes, we probably look as vanilla as they come. Shruggs. Don't look too closely. Anyway. We/we are brand new to this blog, but it seemed so up our alley.

    curtis has many rules...and they're constantly being modified to fit our needs. When I come up with a new rule, I forward it to him, he updates his list and sends it back to me to keep on file (naturally he keeps a copy, too.)

    Infractions are typically met with a spanking, although the first time, or the first time in a long while, are met with a warning.

    Rules for him include:
    I order for him at restaurants/he makes no contact with the wait staff. If they speak to him, I answer for him.

    I buckle him into his seat in the car, and I come over to his side of the car, open the door and unbuckle him. He may not unbuckle his own seatbelt. Unbuckling his own seatbelt results in a resounding slap across the face.

    I choose his clothes daily. While he may choose his underwear on most days, some days he has instructions to wear special pairs.

    He must ask permission to leave the room I'm in, for whatever reasons.
    He must strip at night by 10pm, and ask permission to get in my bed.
    He must ask permission to touch my body.
    He must accept my touch/hug/kiss/ but may not touch/hug/ back unless given permission to do so.
    Upon arriving home from work, he must put away his lunch box, go to the bathroom, then go to our closet and await my arrival to undress him.

    Etc..etc. :)

    So, it's a start...Right now, we're on a 6 month trial as Me as the Female HOH...We'll see how it goes.

    Gina

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    1. Hi Gina. Good to hear from you. Thanks for joining in. How are you liking the HOH role? I agree on the "life is too short to be vanilla" thing. I haven't phrased it quite that way to myself before, but it's very true. Hope to hear from you more.

      Dan

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