Saturday, December 5, 2015

The Forum -- The Floor is Open

Hi all.  Sorry for the short--or, more accurately, belated--notice on this, but I had something come up this weekend that deprived me of the chance to come up with what I'm sure would have been a mindblowingly novel and profound weekly topic.  Unfortunately, the entire weekend is going to be a mess.  So, for this week I pass the baton to you all.  If you have anything you would like to talk about, have at it.  I will respond if and when I can. Otherwise, I look forward to chatting with you again next week.

Dan

43 comments:

  1. We had an event Thursday. My wife came from taking our daughter to work. I was sitting on the couch looking at our recent cruise photos on my phone. She went upstairs and came out a few minutes later. She called me up to her. She was sitting on a chair in the kitchen holding the paddle. I knew what this was about and didn't protest. I placed my phone on the counter and got into position. You all know what happened next. When she was done I picked the phone back up and realized it somehow recorded the event. I didn't intentionally do this but found it very intriguing. My wife liked it as well and said we may record the next session. Has this happened to any others ? Thanks for adding me to the group and hope you all have a great Christmas.

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    1. I have not. No audio or video "selfies" for us.

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    2. I frequently record when disciplining Shilo. I also take pictures.

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  2. Pretty risky passing a baton to a bunch of kinky people and leaving them alone with it. You never know where it might end up.

    Now if you want everyone at each others' throats we could discuss whether "prior consent" really just is consent in the moment? (just kidding)

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  3. Do the holidays have an effect on you receiving discipline or does Santa bring all good boys the discipline they need?

    John

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    1. I was discipline-free these holidays, but more through lack of attention and time than being good

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    2. I discipline Shilo if he needs it, whenever he needs it, and Christmas is no exception.

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    3. It seems that the Holidays are a spank free zone for us. I think that with all that needs doing, I get let off quite a bit.
      Bill

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    4. My wife does "The twelve days of Christmas"...with a dozen spankings.

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    5. More discipline is a Christmas present since you like it so much my wife told me as she continued the session. I get very very sore this time of year. Our female dominance activities get more kinky our domestic discipline activities more frequent and longer.

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    6. Some years ago, my wife thought it would be "fun" to observe the twelve days of Christmas by using a different "tool" every night - and this has now become a tradition (although the choice of instruments, and the order in which they are applied changes from year to year... I don't know what she has in mind for this year's "celebration", but I will soon find out !

      L.

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    7. Christmas is still two weeks away and I doubt you will avoid getting (and deserving) one or two paddlings or whippings in the meantime!

      J.

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  4. I have read this blog from afar for some time now, and I suppose I can chime in. I am a well disciplined husband, although I am not at present certain one would call it a domestic discipline marriage? If it is, it's a tad more intense than some I would think. My wife certainly appreciates ample amounts of control, I will admit that. I am the foolish one that introduced DD originally, but I thought it would be a two way street! And now, I really regret introducing DD. I've mentioned not doing it anymore, and I've also gotten mad and thrown intense temper tantrums about it, and I have also left in an attempt to negotiate DD out of our marriage (all of which resulted in me getting paddled). I've pointed out the fact that the consent portion of our DD went out the window a while ago, but she just says I gave my consent a long time ago. She says that spankings work on me all too well (which, I have to admit, they do), and the fact that I am trying to get out of it only proves how well DD works for me. She has a point, but I am so frustrated! Is this what they call "consensual-non-consent"? Is this normal? I know virtually nothing about DD, and I am NOT by any stretch of the imagination a submissive person. But she is making me into that one day at a time. Is this right? There are other things going on that I am hesitant to mention, but I will close with this one thing.. I do love my wife a great deal. It's not like I am really going to leave her over spanking me. I won't do that. But does DD have to be this frustrating?

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    1. Hey KD -- so much for us not going there!

      Seriously, I don't think there is any simple answer here. You say the consent portion went out the window a long time ago, but she seems to have a point that it works for you, and the situation apparently isn't so abusive that you would leave. My personal view is that DD has to be consensual, and that consent can be withdrawn. But, the way I think some women would choose to deal with that is to say that you can stop the DD relationship, as long as you can find other ways to behave. And, you can't just turn it on and off. When my wife and I first started, our rule was that I could back out at any time, but not when a spanking had been ordered and was still pending. We didn't want me to have opportunities for backing out when the time to pay the piper arrived only to want to turn it back on after I avoided a hard session.

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    2. This issue fascinates me because it really goes to the heart of a DD relationship. Like Dan I believe initial consent has to be freely given. But after that it gets murky because so many men really want their wives to be in control to the point that we get spanked whether we want it or not.With me the consent issue gets complicated because there is a point of no return after she pushes certain buttons I have revealed to her ( taking my pants down is the big one)..At that point, psychologically I cannot resist what is happening and so I am consenting to be punished even though at that point I do not want it to actually happen. If you push me I guess I believe that in a DD relationship consent is a one time thing. Of course there is always divorce but Average Guy doesn't want that and he implies the spankings he gets produce the result he and his wife originally aimed for.The fact he is staying in the relationship certainly seems to me consenting to his wife's discipline. The girlfriend who introduced me to spanking had a much simpler way to sum all this up. She said once I gave her the authority to discipline me, I could never take it away. She was right and I never really regretted it but its a good reminder to be careful what you wish for.
      Alan

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    3. @ Averageguy: Consensual non-consent (AKA:CNC) is more of a term used in BDSM relationships. I've never heard it used in reference to DD relationships, but it doesn't mean that it isn't used. In CNC, the submissive/slave gives permission for the Mistress/Master/Dominant to do whatever s/he wants without ever asking permission again, Complete authority is given, and the submissive/slave agrees they cannot stop it.

      As for "normal", there is no such thing. What's normal for Dan and his wife isn't the same as what is normal for myself and Shilo, or KDPierre and his Mistress, although I'd venture to say that my "normal" is closer to that of KDPierre than Dan.

      Remember the old saying "You made your bed, now lay in it?" This is like that.

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    4. Alan, I agree, that really is the rub -- many men want it to be non-consensual on some level. They want the loss of control that goes along with someone else deciding when it happens. Though, the quirk here is, what if he wants it to stop entirely and she makes it a condition of the relationship, like "Keep submitting to this or I leave you?"

      KD has opined before that there are limits to submission, and this conversation is why I agree with that. Ultimately, I believe consent has to be ongoing, because otherwise the potential for abuse gets very high. All kinds of these relationships can work, but there has to be a good bit of emotional stability on the part of both parties, and I personally think the only real way to prevent abuse is the sub has to have enough independence to say when enough is enough.

      Now, Average Guy, honestly, it sounds like to you it is not about lack of backbone, but while you hate the spankings, you're balancing the pros and cons and deciding it is worth submitting to them. But, it's hard for me to say.

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    5. Well put, Dan. And after all, I have espoused my 'consent-in-the-moment' theory in venues fraught with submissive women.....people who could honestly look to run away and be forcibly caught and punished against their genuine will. Is there any guy here that worries about that? Each time you go across a lap on your own steam, you are submitting. Reluctantly perhaps, maybe even fearfully, maybe even with resentment but ultimate trust either to your Top's judgment or your own sense of honor to the prior agreement. But in THAT moment, unless you are being physically forced into position while screaming "let me go! I'm going to call 911".....you are submitting and consenting. The 'prior consent' is just the agreement that establishes your pledge to cooperation.

      And there is a huge difference between: "waah, I don't wanna get spanked" and "dammit, I'm dead serious, if you touch me over this issue right now without any resolution first, I think we'll be seeing a lawyer in the morning".

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    6. First and foremost, thank you all for your generous and thoughtful replies. They mean more to me than you likely realize. You've all given me a great deal to consider about the nature of consent. One of you mentioned I was giving consent by living with her. I mostly agree with that, I suppose I am! On the other hand, if hypothetically someone was truly being abused and browbeat and truly terrified of the consequences of leaving, would THEY be consenting? What if they had no contact with the outside world? No where to go. What then? Hypothetically of course....

      Anyway, as I've mentioned, you've given me some thought to contemplate in my future. I appreciate that. At least half of my original impetus for writing was to form a friendship possibly. Someone, or a group of people, with which to commiserate with. Someone to tell me that it's okay, and perfectly normal. I'm still not sure that is the case, especially as there are a number of things going on that I hesitate to mention on a public forum. But as someone so ably put it, "there is no normal". Good point that I concur with, thank you.

      Yes, I admit DD "works" on me. Exceptionally well in fact. In most situations, I weigh whether what I'm about to do could be interpreted as a spankable offense and avoid it whenever possible. But even at that, I still manage to get a spanking once every two months. There are exceptions of course, like last October I got FIVE! But that was because she had me in a boot camp of a sort. This month is also an exceptional month. I was given an incredible privelage, and almost had it removed in one hour because I got my first cell phone of my very own (I had one three years ago, but it was taken away), and managed to break it in the first hour (oopsie). Then I learned the REAL reason for the cell phone was so she could track my movements, and when I was somewhere I had not previously told her I would be (which also alone was more privilege than I had seen in 3 years), well... Everything has an equal and related aftermath with her it seems. Often times it is not pleasant. However, I did manage to get something out of the phone fiasco that I had previously longed for (access to the internet). Not sure yet if she willingly gave that to me, or if it is a mistake?

      I particularly liked this comment: "the sub has to have enough independence to say when enough is enough." I'll have to mull this all over quite a bit more....

      Anyway, I'm rambling, so I'll go. Thank you so much for your input. And thank you so much for having me here.

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    7. Average Guy,

      This is a big one to tackle. And, honestly, the more I read your posts, the more I think I probably should not try to tackle them, because I think there may be more going on there than meets the eye. When KD first asked whether any of the males fear being physically overpowered, I thought, that really is a very relevant distinction. And, it is. But, you also say:

      "One of you mentioned I was giving consent by living with her. I mostly agree with that, I suppose I am! On the other hand, if hypothetically someone was truly being abused and browbeat and truly terrified of the consequences of leaving, would THEY be consenting? What if they had no contact with the outside world? No where to go. What then? Hypothetically of course...."

      No, no it wouldn't be. But for most men that isn't where things are. If you are saying that is the case for you, the analysis changes very fast.

      You also talk about your first cellphone ever and no access to the internet. If this is a result of her control, and it is not something you have truly agreed to . . . No, there is nothing normal there.

      I honestly don't know if this is the right community for you, because I can't tell why you are in the situation you are in. If you are denied a cellphone and internet because you are in some BDSM power exchange that you signed on for, then I get what is happening, though that really isn't what this blog is about.

      It you don't have a cellphone and internet because she says so and she is keeping you from the outside world, and if my statement that a sub has to have enough independence to stop when things need to stop resonates with you, but you can't do it,then the only advice I can give you is get professional help. This blog really is about CONSENSUAL relationships, and from you description, I can't tell if you are in one. If what is happening is really against your consent, you need to get some professional help.

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    8. Dear Averageguy424:

      Important facts:

      1) You introduced DD originally (even though you thought it would be 2 way);

      2) You have “gotten mad and thrown intense temper tantums about it”;

      3) You and your wife both agree “that spankings work on you all too well”.

      4) You are not “going to leave her over spanking”.

      Your wife knows that domestic discipline works well for both of you and she is not going to give it up easily. It sounds like you wanted to introduce spanking as a romantic/sexy/kinky type thing between spouses, and you ended up getting much more than you bargained for. My suggestion is just go with it. Or as they say in golf - “play it as it lays” - which in you case is laying over your wife’s knees.

      Instead of consensual-non-consent, I prefer to think of it in terms of general consent and specific consent. All adult discipline should be based on the general consent of the disciplined, but there is no need for specific consent for a particular punishment because that would defeat the whole purpose. By that I mean she should have your general consent to discipline you during the course of a certain frame (say a year), but once given she does not need it in order to administer a specific disciplinary session. Like everything in life, DD can be very frustrating - but handled properly, it is much less frustrating that all of the alternatives, i.e, - nagging, bickering, the “silent treatment”, the “cold shoulder”, etc.

      I have to read between the lines here, but I presume that your wife is incapable of overpowering you, but that you sometimes refuse to timely submit to her punishment, only to agree sometime later at which point you are then spanked. My advice is that you double down on your situation in order to improve it.

      First, you two should come up with a Domestic Discipline Agreement for the year 2016, in which both of you set forth mutually agreed rules and goals of the arrangement, but which can only be amended during 2016 by mutual consent. By doing so you will be granting your general consent and recognizing her authority to discipline you.

      Second, you should show your commitment that your specific consent is not required during the course of the year by presenting her with some solid wrist restraints (i.e. - police quality metal hand cuffs). These have the effect of neutralizing your upper body strength so that she is now has not only the authority, but also the ability to discipline you timely. This will empower her to administer your discipline when you need it most - which is when you think you don’t.

      Perhaps the BDSM crowd thinks in terms of dominant and submissive, but I do not when it comes to any form of domestic discipline. A student is not submissive to a teacher, a child is not submissive to an adult, even an enlisted man is not submissive to an officer. But, the teacher, adult and officer all have AUTHORITY. So I don’t see that you are being submissive to your wife, you are just recognizing her authority and ability to punish you. In fact, I believe corporal punishment works best on the assertive, aggressive, testosterone laden male, because it is he that requires the strongest medicine.

      Sounds like to me that we have a naughty husband on our hands whose wife knows what’s best for him, even if he does not, or at least does not want to admit it. I really believe you will be happiest by continuing with some firm, but loving female authority in your life.

      Carl H


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    9. I feel like I've completely massacred every post I've made here so far! I've somehow managed to shade my wife as an evil person in my descriptions, and I feel like I need to right this. My hypothetical situation, it is just that. Hypothetical. Mostly... It's... complicated. Obviously. Lol. I was and am still very isolated from the world. And yes, my wife does honestly frighten me at times. Indeed, I definitely have issue with the consent portion of our DD. And... I admit, there are things going on that aren't entirely right. One of those things is, yes, she was keeping me isolated for over three years! But, in her defense, things have taken a change for the better just recently. Just to clear it up, I DID have a cell phone three years ago. It was taken from me as a way for her to control my social interactions, and maybe a bit more... But as of now I do own a fantastic phone which I am incredibly grateful to have (my goodness, how phones have advanced in 3 years!). Also, she granted me unsupervised excursions, in a brand new car which she purchased just for that purpose! While I am on the subject, just for clarity, I am in fact quite spoiled. I live in very plush surroundings. My wife, generally has my security and we'll being in her thoughts. Admittedly, she is well beyond overboard. Her choice in punishments is very intense. Every single time! But she is not evil. I love her. Tremendously! And if I have to be disciplined in order to have her? Okay...

      I am, very frustrated, a little scared, and honestly totally conditioned to react to her presence and commands just exactly the way she wants. But I don't believe it to be a BDSM relationship. I didn't sign up for that. If she had of told me what exactly was going to happen to me? I would not have agreed. But I'm here now, and I will be until death do we part. Better or worse. She may have a secret interest in BDSM though? I'm unsure on that, so I'll have to think on it.

      Carl, I find NOTHING erotic or sexy about spankings. I have zero concept of that, as evidenced by a comment I made earlier on this very thread. I appreciate your response, but honestly I cringed the whole time reading it. You don't have a very good grasp of my situation, but still... Thanks. I do like your idea of setting up a plan for the year though. I'll have to see if I can have the courage to negotiate that with her... I also like the general consent term. Maybe that's the best way to describe how things got to this level?

      However I never left, or threw a fit or tried to discuss our DD while I was due a spanking. Not going to happen. That would make things 100% worse for me. And um... giving her handcuffs is... I don't know, it's sort of like handing someone a shotgun to kill a fly. She doesn't need handcuffs to deal with me. I'm very meek as it is.

      Dan, thank you especially for your comments. Whether you feel you shouldn't tackle it or not, your still helping me, and I greatly appreciate that. I also don't know if my relationship is consensual or not! I can't answer that. I don't know if I belong here in the long run, but thanks for letting me be here for now at least.

      One question... What sort of professional help would one seek in such a situation? That is not likely an avenue I will pursue, as I have no wish to have my wife in some sort of trouble. And, I feel like that's what lies down that road no matter what you suggest. But just out of curiosity?

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  5. Hi Dan,
    Thanks for a great resource in keeping your blog so informative.I have been hoping this problem would come up but maybe I could raise it in case someone can help.Is there a way to train the male partner to control his sexual reaction when a spanking is coming, in other words not get an erection before it starts. My deal with my wife is that spankings are on her terms and punishment. But she feels my erections before getting spanked make it a sex game instead of discipline. We are aware of course that making me cum before the spanking would do it but neither of us want to do that on any kind of regular basis. I have read ( on other blogs) some women have trained their partner to stay soft but I am vague about how they did it. We are not into cock and ball punishment or anything like that. Thanks in advance if anyone can help
    Ed.

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    1. Sorry, Ed. I can't be of any help on this one.

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    2. Use a male chastity device.

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    3. Thanks Anonymous. But my wife thinks they are kinky.She wants me to show self control and I am looking for a way to do that.
      Ed

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    4. I guess I just assumed nobody wants to get a spanking. They happen to hurt, and are humiliating beyond words. I guess I’m just naïve in my assumption that no one wants to get a spanking…. I for one don’t have any sexual reaction to it… I’m not sure, but couldn’t they just get spanked harder until they don’t like it? Maybe that’s not a viable solution?

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    5. Ed,
      Does your erection go away by the end of the spanking, or do you still have it? If it goes away, then I think you can attribute your woody to embarrassment, and your wife should be proud of her ability to make it go away. If it remains, then perhaps you can take some medicine before hand to make you go soft.

      Carl H

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    6. Hi Carl,

      It goes away pretty fast but comes back in the corner.That pisses her off the most
      Ed

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    7. Hi Ed,
      We dealt with this long time ago. We used what I think is called operant conditioning which is psycho babble for training you to associate something ( your erection in this case) with unpleasantness. The technique was pretty simple. Whenever I got an erection before being spanked which was almost always in the beginning, she would just stop everything and put me in the corner standing on my toes, nose to wall until it went away. Then she started the scolding over inevitably causing another erection and back to the corner. We did this for several hours a week for several months (about six). The whole thing becomes incredibly frustrating and boring and it did work. I still sometimes do get an erection when I am over her lap but it goes away fast and she is OK with that.One other technique I have heard about but not tried is to stand in front of her bent over and masturbate as she spanks with a brush or strap.She spanks until you get soft and then over time I guess you begin to associate an erection and masturbating with pain. So its the same operant conditioning. I have no idea if this second technique actually works but if it does it"s probably faster than the technique we used. Main point is that there are ways to teach yourself some control over erections and if your wife wants or demands this, you should experiment with it. Good luck.
      Alan
      P.S. Not all women seem to care about this. The woman who introduced me to spanking actually seemed to like it and once or twice told me "that( the erection) won't last long" and it sure didn't. Maybe you could talk to your wife about why it offends her. She might think it's more sexual than it is.

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  6. When DD was first introduced into our marriage 3 yrs ago, to insure that it wasn't a sexual release I was required to cum. She chose to what she referred to as milking me. There was no pleasure release in it and then I was over the edge of the bed and spanked, paddled or caned. It works!

    Scott

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  7. Now that I've commented on the comments, I was wondering if you could revisit thee issue of DD/BDSM and health issues, whether it is the giver or receiver, and how it is handled. I don't mean the average cold, I mean a more serious illness or injury. Thank you!

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    1. It would depend on the injury or illness. Can't have someone who can't walk stand in a corner.

      Logistically if the discipline is possible why should it stop?

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  8. It seems to me that once a man has asked or agreed to DD it is a done deal. We are not children. We know what we want. I think if the partners go slowly and keep a steady stream of communication before it begins then they should be able should one or both want to revise the rules of the marriage work it out.
    To me it is not a game or some kinky habit. Both Anna and I knew this when we started. Her participation is something I cherish. It is a gift from her to me. I work hard so that i return a gift. For her a caring and involved husband and dad. Peter

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  9. Hello everyone. 6 months ago at age 33 I discovered the idea of DD and became a little obsessed with it. Told the wife, and she doesn't get it but agreed to do it and has spanked me with a paddle a few times. It's not totally satisfying as she doesn't seem to quite get the spirit it of it. It hurts bad but only one time was it enough to give me that lingering feeling of appreciation toward her for a couple days after. I have been the dominant one always and I think it's hard for to even consider I need punishment, which I understand is a common issue. Even the ones that only hurt for the moment still hurt bad for the moment, and it's nowhere near the severity of what some of you guys get. Has anyone here had an experience where the wife did it at first because you requested it, without being fully vested in the idea , but come around later to fully embrace the power of it? How much later? Lol

    Dan thanks for having this blog. I've been a lurker for some time but I think I will jump in a little

    Ron h

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  10. Yes. We started out that way. My wife was open to the idea and first time was a bit awkward. However since that time she has fully accepted her role and dies an incredible job. Most days go normally well but when it comes time for me to be over her knee she takes on the role of a strict no non sense disciplinarian. Once the spanking is over she immediately changes back into the loving person she is.

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    1. Does an incredible job. ( stupid spell check. )

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  11. Hi Ron H. Thanks for joining. I bet a lot of men in DD got started exactly the same way. Including me. Find ways to thank her for trying and build her up for doing it enough that it hurts in the moment. Try to have some kind of check-in every couple of months - like dinner out for the two of you or something -- where you talk about it and suggest you could take more. That's always the balance at first -- they want to try but don't know how far to go. Honestly, you start sounds incredibly encouraging for the long-term viability of DD for both of you.

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  12. Sometimes we stop momentarily when things are severe to make sure I'm OK. Often she will shake her head she says in confused amusement that I am OK. And she will start up again. That level of trust and caring shows me how much she cares for me. So the is it to much concern has not gone away for us. It is a lot easier however for her to be in this role

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  13. Thanks for the replies. I think she owes me a good one right now. We will see if she follows through without me reminding her.

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  14. This may be off topic but...

    It seems like there is nearly always a disconnect between how much punishment and accountability the husband wants, and how much energy or attention the wife has to give. There is free software that might (or might not) be helpful:
    http://ss.deviatenow.com/

    This allows anyone to write plugins. Someone has recently written a free, female led Domestic Discipline plugin called "Domme" which seems promising (you can download it from that same site. No doubt it can still be improved, and likely someone will improve on it.

    Of course it is no substitute for the real thing. However, can it be useful for getting the male into the correct "mindset" of obedience? Especially in the off times when the spouse is too busy, is ill, or traveling, etc. Any thoughts? (p.s. it is free, but you need java installed on your PC).

    Thanks!

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  15. One subject I dont see mentioned here is being spanked by your lady in the wheelbarrow position.

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