Saturday, September 26, 2015

The Forum - Vol. 106

Hi all.  Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum -- our weekly gathering of husbands and wives engaged or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships.

I hope you had a great week.  I was really glad to have mine come to an end.  Work has been a killer, constant travel, and just basically one of those weeks where everything that could go wrong did.  But, it's a beautiful early Fall weekend, and I hope you are all out enjoying it.

We had a great discussion last week.  One surprise was just how much the discussion of "alternative" or "additional" punishments has changed in less than a year.  When we last talked about that topic, it did not draw much interest, and what little there was seemed to be fairly strongly opposed to using anything other than spanking as punishment in a Domestic Discipline relationship.  This time, there was a much more open, and positive, discussion of various alternatives.  I wonder if part of the reason for the change is the slightly different direction this blog has gone in.  When it began, and until about a year ago, I had kept it pretty tightly aligned with Domestic Discipline of the corporal punishment variety.  Over the last year, however, as my own relationship started to explore larger dimensions of Female-male power exchange that went beyond sporadic, episodic spankings for particular offenses and started to explore Female Led Relationships, the blog went a bit in that direction as well.  And, with that broader emphasis, we seem to be bringing in regular readers who are interested not just in discipline via spanking, but in various other forms of female leadership and direction.

While I understand the opposition to grounding, taking away privileges, added chores, and other "alternative" or "additional" forms punishment or control, all I can say is that for us, it seems to be working. And after a period of pretty strong internal resistance on my part. Alan observed in a comment to the last topic that "alternative" forms of punishment can breed resentment.  I agree, though I think that is true of ALL forms of punishment to the extent they are really functioning as punishment, i.e. as something that is not enjoyable, is uncomortable and hard to take, and that are aimed at real behavioral correction.  And, there has, in fact, been a fair amount of resentment on my part.  I first suggested taking things in more of an FLR direction after reading about it on other blogs and discussing it with one FLR practitioner who has become a real mentor to me on this, albeit electronically.  As my wife started giving it a try, it went in a "service FLR" direction that I really hated, and still do to a large extent. But, it also undeniably gave her increasing confidence as she exercised this new and incremental authority.  And, when she finally took the step toward grounding me after a recurring offense, it seemed a a real sea change in where our relationship is going.  I have always said that the important part for me about DD--the part that I really need--is for someone to impose real boundaries on my behavior.  The "alternative" or "additional" punishments we have been exploring seem to really be effectuating that change in a way that spanking alone never quite achieved.

An example I gave in the comments to last week's topic is instructive.  Yesterday afternoon, the office mates and I decided to kill of a very long week with a quick happy hour drink.  The wait service turned out to be incredibly slow, and I was sitting there waiting for my first drink with the clock  ticking such that I was going to be late for an early dinner with some of my wife's familly.  A few months ago, in all likelihood I would have at least finished the drink, kept talking with my colleagues, and made it to dinner 30 minutes or more late.  This time, I just paid for my undelivered drink and left.  I really don't think that would have happened if the only consequence I would have suffered for my tardiness was a spanking.  Instead, I knew that if I was late there was  a pretty good chance I would find myself grounded from ALL happy hours for a week or more.  So, for us it is working, and I intend to keep submitting to it, even if doing so makes me resentful sometimes.

Now, on to this week's topic, though it is an off-shoot.  During last week's discussion, there was a small set of comments exchanged regarding strap-ons, and whether they function as real punishment.  I have steered clear of this topic in the past, along with most topics that really get into explicit sexual acts, as I want to make sure this blog remains a welcoming place for people with all ranges of comfort levels about particular sexual activities.  But, this seemed to be one that people are interested in and, with some approppriate restraint, I'm sure it can be dealt with maturely.  So, let's talk about that specific issue, but also broaden it a bit.  There were two strains that seemed to be going on in the brief set of comments from last week. First, does the strap-on act as a true punishment for the male?  Second, does it empower the woman in some way and, correspondingly, disempower him or "put him in his place"?  For the women who have used them and enjoyed the experience, did it make you feel empowered in some way different from delivering a spanking?  And, to broaden it a little more, are there other ways that our Disciplinary Wives and Female Leaders send those unmistakable messages that they are the ones in charge?

Have a great week!

29 comments:

  1. Dan,

    I will answer these as you asked them. “First, does the strap-on act as a true punishment for the male?” To me it’s more disciplinary because there is no real pain, instead inducing submission, obedience and attitude change by physically controlling my bottom. But it does produce a large impression and as my former girlfriend called it a “teaching moment” “Second, does it empower the woman in some way and, correspondingly, dis-empower him or "put him in his place"?. My wife has told me she feels more in control using her strap on than spanking . I don’t know if it puts me in my place but when it’s over I have no doubts about who is in charge. Third, for women who have enjoyed the experience, did it make you feel empowered in some way different from delivering a spanking? For my girlfriend it was completely separate from spanking but for my wife it’s used after spanking for specific corrections. Fourth “are there other ways Disciplinary Wives and Female Leaders send those unmistakable messages that they are in charge? “ I think any discipline administered to correct or punish delivers that message. For me the strap on produces deeper submission and obedience than any other discipline. My former girlfriend believed that deep submission allowed her to get through to me better in problem areas like throwing tantrums when I was frustrated. One additional thought. Part of the power of the strap on in my experience is its infrequency. But I have read of women who use the strap on regularly or even as the only way they discipline. This may work for femdom couples where female dominance can be 24 -7. But for DD couples I think it would lose its effectiveness and even become counterproductive.
    Alan.

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  2. So, you're becoming a sex blog - I'm done

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    1. It astonishes me how willing some people are to display their intellectual shallowness, but not their name
      Marisa

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    2. I see nothing sexual

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  3. Dan
    You know you are being read when you begin to attract negative reactions to the topics. Keep going those of us who look forward to your blog, you are now apart of our lives and I know this blog has led me to think more about my marriage with Anna and how solid we are by talking about all and any topic.

    peter

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    1. Peter, thank you for the very kind response. You and Anna and all our other regulars have become a part of my life as well. Hope you and Anna are having a great weekend.

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  4. Hi Dan,

    I think it is a great topic. Before I comment, I have to say that I find it amusing that someone that chooses to be "anonymous" has the gall to be uppity about what direction they perceive your blog is going in. Your response (for whatever my opinion is worth) was epic, simple and appropriate. "You'll be missed".

    Onto my comment. I am one that lives in the FLM which has plenty of kinks. For me, the idea of having to take Mistress' strap on would be punishment is not something that would work in our marriage. For me, it would not be punishment at all. Why? Because it is something that I crave from her. I am an alpha male in all aspects except one. That one is in my marriage and my submission to my wife in all aspects, sexual or otherwise has become the sole source of my sexual pleasure, which is a wonderful thing. Mistress using her strap on with me is hands down, my favorite submissive sexual activity.

    As such, it would be anything but a punishment. In fact, I can envision making mistakes on purpose if taking her strappy was my punishment. I don't think I need to explain why screwing up on purpose is a bad thing. I agree with some of the comments about how alternative punishment like being grounded or the taking away of privileges would breed resentment. The thing about receiving a spanking as punishment for Mistress K. and I is that it allows the fastest, most effective manner for which my infractions can be dealt with (the severity and length of which varies depending solely on Mistress K's discretion and nature of the infraction), and just as importantly ... it wipes the slate clean so to speak so there is no lingering hard feelings from either of us. There is nothing so wonderful is the aftercare following a punishment spanking. It allows for each of us to bond in a way that is so deep, so special that I can properly put it into words here. Especially following an especially harsh spanking punishment.

    The taking away of privileges in "normal" life wouldn't work for us I'm afraid.

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    1. Hi Sub Hub. Thanks for the support. The wonderful thing about the rise of the blogosphere is that there is something out there for everyone. And, if you don't like what others are offering, roll up your sleeves and write your own.

      I do see this whole topic as a nice extension of last week. And, it illustrates the amazing diversity of behaviors, needs and desires, even withit what one might assume to be a fairly narrow segment of the population, i.e. those into F/m-oriented domestic discipline. If this blog has taught me anything, it is not to be surprised that things that work wonderfully for one couple would be ineffective or even destructive for another. I have no doubt that a strap-on could work as a punishment for, as examples, Marisa and Alan, while not working at all as punishment for you.

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  5. Quick comment: This is a sex blog??? I'm laughing so hard at that!!!! Someone got their panties in a bunch over a perfectly legitimate question? Too bad for them! I won't miss someone who chooses to not only be anonymous but "holier than thou" besides.

    I'll answer this later, because it'
    s a long one


    Merry

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  6. Discipline for us is not about the domination of one by the other but setting a point of reference that I can look to for a set of standards of behaviour that are expected of me, that I can respect and conform to.
    It's very much an extension of the discipline I had when younger and at home and school but with a couple of twists. The first unlike today, is that I was only ever caned at school and then only when fully clothed. At home, punishment was usually on the bare bottom because I had to change into just my pyjama top before going over the knee for a traditional hand spanking or sometimes if Mom, the ruler. Also maintenance wasn't needed because for an adventurous, risk taking boy like me, punishment came round often enough. In any case having two like minded brothers, one or other of us was on the receiving end a couple of times a week so there were plenty of reminders whereas today and much better behaved, punishment doesn't come round that often and so I need maintenance to keep me in check.
    Sex and discipline are completely decoupled and not by design. It just happens that way but it's as we like it. We enjoy the bedroom and tried many things including the strapon but it doesn't do anything for either of us. Instead we'd probably be described as staid and dominance is shared but that's how we like it.

    Dave

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    1. Hi Dave. It sounds like you've found an approach that works for you both. Thanks for sharing.

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  7. Hi
    Thank you for an interesting and educational blog. It seems as real as anything on the internet today.
    I have been reading for about a year but have not commented mostly because I do not spank my husband. But I do use a strap on and am very much in a FLR relationship with him. I believe there are many like me who prefer to not spank but use some kind of anal discipline with an alpha man. They are usually confident enough they are not threatened by being penetrated and it does change them, I had some experience before I met my husband and with few exceptions men become more submissive, sweet and loving after they have been pegged.They also become less selfish sexually and lose that male obsession with their own orgasm.To me the strap on or the leather strap are two separate options. You can use one or the other as you prefer but I doubt many women really need both.
    Patty

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    1. Hi Patty. Thanks for joining, and for your insights on this topic. I hope you'll jump in on any topics that seem to resonate. Hopefully there will be a few that are more relationship driven than focused exclusively on spanking.

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    2. Thanks for joining in, Patty. I think you make a good point about addressing the male obsession with orgasm. In my own experience, which is probably reflective of many modern men, I do make a determined effort to ensure that my wife has an orgasm (or more) each time we have sex - cunnilingus almost always comes first. However, in all honesty, sex does not seem complete unless I have an orgasm as well - whereas my wife may sometimes unselfishly forego an orgasm if not in the mood yet still grant me one just because I'm horny. The strap-on sessions address that "have to cum" attitude. Although we do not generally use orgasm denial or enforced chastity in our marriage, there is no sexual gratification for me following either a spanking or a strap-on session. And, most of the time now she uses a vibration device for herself while taking me with the strap-on - so she will inevitably have two or three orgasms (resulting in some of her most determined thrusts) while I am meekly submitting to her penetration - certainly a powerful lesson in role reversal. As Alan has quoted his former girl friend as saying, "It is a teaching moment" - understanding about sexual submission without my own gratification. -al

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    3. I will also add that it is quite interesting that five our ladies have joined in over the last 2 weeks to say that at some point they have used a strap-on a man. At least in our group, this is a refreshing change from what I have seen in the past - where many women could not get past the idea that if the man would take a strap-on under any conditions, it must mean that he is a latent homosexual. I have seen this notion many times in the forums over the years, and even in racy conversations that occasionally come up (usually over drinks). Elise Sutton does a really nice job of addressing that idea with the simple statement that if a man and a woman are involved, it is - by definition - heterosexual, regardless of whatever tools or toys may be used.

      My wife has even admitted that prior to our DD lifestyle, she would have had the same initial thought. However, becoming a spanking wife opened her up to the idea and nature of submission, which became even clearer to her as she read the articles on the Elise Sutton site.
      --al

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  8. I left some comments on this topic in last week's post, but to address Dan's questions - my wife utilizes the strap-on as punishment or discipline in the sense that she uses it to address my alpha male behaviors - arrogance, machismo, etc at another level. As I wrote last week, she uses a fairly large dildo in a firm manner as she wants to ensure that the experience is uncomfortable. She feels that the large dildo, vigorous application, and discomfort add to the point being made by the use of the strap-on. But while uncomfortable, it is not truly painful or harmful. It is however certainly an effective discipline in psychological terms - always leaving me profoundly humbled and "tamed".

    I have posted before that my wife utilizes a weekly maintenance spanking to aid in maintaining an aura of feminine discipline in the household. She occasionally uses the strap-on to add a solid exclamation point to that aura of feminine discipline. It is unquestionably empowering for her and "dis-empowering" for me - and at a more intimate and personal dimension than even that of an otk bare bottom spanking. As I and others have already posted - a strap-on session invariably produces pronounced submissiveness, obedience, and humility. As to other practices that promote submissiveness at a more intimate dimension - extended oral sex sessions that focus on "service" rather than love making, and especially on the backside, also add to the submission and dis-empowerment, especially when following a strap-on session. --al

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  9. I'll try to make this short and interesting, in spite of the fact I could probably make this a book.

    As a lifestyle BDSM Dominant, many of my male submissives have been on the receiving end of a strap-on wielded by me. Nearly every person I've used it on has found it to be a pleasurable experience, Shilo included. My theory is because it will sometimes hit the prostate gland "just so." Naturally, there are some men who are homophobic and fear they will be seen as less of a man for enjoying it, but I say hogwash.

    If I was to use a strap-on as punishment, I'm sure Shilo would misbehave just to get it. Still, if it works as an effective punishment, I'm all for it.

    Now, how do I feel when I am using it? It's not really sexual for me. The whole ritual of me putting it on, having the male in question suck and lick it (To be sure it's 'lubricated' enough) and having him bend over to receive it is all power play for me. Knowing I have the power to have a man bend to my will is exhilarating, especially when we're in a Loving relationship. The humiliation he goes through just by undergoing an enema (till clear) and 'servicing' my cock is enough to punish the average man. It makes me wish I could go back and "punish" a few deserving men.

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    1. For those men who enjoy the strap-on experience - as had been mentioned a couple of times now (and obviously there are many who do) - I would be curious to know if there is still a resulting sense of submission and obedience after the strap-on session even though it is physically enjoyed and not seen as disciplinary? --al

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    2. Mmm. One writer stated that a strap-on can result in "...a more intimate and personal dimension than even that of an otk bare bottom spanking." My wife has given me otk maintenance spankings once a week for several years, but I'm very intrigued by the thought that if she regularly wore a strap-on we might have even greater intimacy! I would dearly LOVE greater intimacy with my wife/mistress.

      And I think I might really enjoy this form of sex! But I wonder if my desiring this form of intimacy, at least partly, is because when I was about 10 or 12 my mother used to occasionally have me get on my hands and knees and give me an enema. And I wonder if I would become more submissive as a result of this activity -- even less desirous of an orgasm?

      -- Ken

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  10. At our house the strap on or more often the dildo is used as a humiliation device rather than a punishment. As you describe the power exchange it offers is incredible. In a spanking I voluntarily bend over but for the strap on I have to hold my cheeks apart, relax my muscles. Allow it to happen.

    My wife likes to snuggle / spoon in bed with the head of the strap on just touching my bottom cheeks. She says it is her reminder to me that she can do as she pleases when it comes to things we have previously discussed and I have consented to.

    So no not a punishment device . An enjoyable from the perspective of it enjoy humiliation device .

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  11. I think it was last weeks entry I mentioned that although I had never used one on Peter that I had on my college beau. We had experimented and Tony, my college beau,was curious. He liked it and I adored the way it reduced the male swagger that came with a college star athlete. I loved the submissive quality that seemed to come over him. Granted it never lasted long, but it was nice.
    After last weeks blog Peter asked me if I ever thought of taking him with a strap on in an effort to reduce his swagger. I often use that term to describe men like my ex Tony, and to be frank you and Peter also fall into that men who swagger category.
    Peter is at present in SanFrancisco and earlier this week he called.It was one of those late night calls that often happen to a married couple. He had been to a dinner and had a few cocktails and as we spoke I managed to down a few glasses of my favorite pinot Grigio. Long story short
    Peter suggested I fly there for a long weekend. Time without the little monsters sounded like heaven. As he signed off he whispered perhaps this weekend I might reduce his swagger a bit.
    I made plans on tuesday to go join him but never mentioned our chat the night before. Late that nite I called to confirm my arrival . As he said goodnight, he whispered perhaps this weekend we
    might shop and I might try reducing his swagger. So we shall see. Even if it doesn't happen I so
    appreciated the gesture.
    Before signing off want to say I have his permission to relate this here.

    Anna

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  12. Dan


    I think it was last weeks entry I mentioned that although I had never used one on Peter that I had on my college beau. We had experimented and Tony, my college beau,was curious. He liked it and I adored the way it reduced the male swagger that came with a college star athlete. I loved the submissive quality that seemed to come over him. Granted it never lasted long, but it was nice.
    After last weeks blog Peter asked me if I ever thought of taking him with a strap on in an effort to reduce his swagger. I often use that term to describe men like my ex Tony, and to be frank you and Peter also fall into that men who swagger category.
    Peter is at present in SanFrancisco and earlier this week he called.It was one of those late night calls that often happen to a married couple. He had been to a dinner and had a few cocktails and as we spoke I managed to down a few glasses of my favorite pinot Grigio. Long story short
    Peter suggested I fly there for a long weekend. Time without the little monsters sounded like heaven. As he signed off he whispered perhaps this weekend I might reduce his swagger a bit.
    I made plans on tuesday to go join him but never mentioned our chat the night before. Late that nite I called to confirm my arrival . As he said goodnight, he whispered perhaps this weekend we
    might shop and I might try reducing his swagger. So we shall see. Even if it doesn't happen I so
    appreciated the gesture.
    Before signing off want to say I have his permission to relate this here.

    Anna

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    1. Thanks, Anna! I also do not deny your keen observation that I have more than my share of swagger.

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  13. Alternate punishments are necessary in our relationship. If I misbehave, I can lose privileges to go out with my friends, have chores added, time in chastity, and usually this is on top of the spanking that normally occurs. I admit, that I need to be spanked and sometimes I want it, usually only until it happens. The other disciplinary actions enforce her right to choose the punishment of her choice. If it were only the spanking, I would tend to top from the bottom. Since I don't know how I might be disciplined, I have to think long and hard before I risk breaking the rules. In terms of strap on, it is not a punishment for us as I find it pleasurable and she knows that. --Eli

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  14. Hello your blog is quite interesting and a bit different than others in a good way. My use of a strap on has quite a few variables. If I'm using it for or as punishment I like to have my husband masturbate first. I watch him or ignore him, read, watch tv speak on the phone as he goes to town or I may send him to the bathroom to quickly get the job done. I may take matters into my own hands also. Once he's spent and completely limp any dominance or punishment is emotionally multiplied. Usually he then goes face down, nude and I go to town "conquering" his bottom with my "cock." His bottom hole has the odd sensation afterwards as does his limp cock. I can then proceed to give him the spanking of his life if needed. It all works together as sound discipline when it's needed. His backside is mine and I handle it as it needs to be or as I want to for my own pleasure. Amy

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    1. Hi Amy. I'm glad you like it. Thanks for joining in on the conversation. You are a welcome addition.

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