Saturday, February 21, 2015

The Forum - Vol. 78

Hello all.  Welcome, and happy Saturday.  This seemed like a very long week.

This week's topic is one that I am intentionally leaving a little vague, because I think it could take the discussion in some interesting directions. I also hope it enourages participation from our disciplinary wives in particular.

It seems obvious that being on the receiving end of a disciplinary spanking can be hard.  As can learning to submit to authority, particularly if you are wired as I am and really don't take orders well.  But, I suspect that many men fail to appreciate the challenges of being the disciplinarian and of exercising leadership over another person. In fact, I suspect that a lot of blossoming FLR and DD relationships die on the vine because of the husband's unreasonable expectations regarding his wife's abiilty to suddenly become a totally different person, preferably a leather-clad, whip wielding Dominatrix. 

So, who is DD and FLR harder for, the recipient or the dominant?  Particularly for our disciplinary wives, what challenges do you face in becoming a strong leader or disciplinarian?  Are there things your husband could do to help you beome more comfortable in that role?  Or, are my assumptions wrong and you personally found it quite easy to take the leadership role in your relationship?

Have a great weekend.

Dan

37 comments:

  1. I'm here to shoot holes in a few things, but, to make it easier for all to process and so I don't have a HUGE amount of text that is overwhelming, I'll do it in tiny bites. First, let me address the fantasy of a leather-clad, whip wielding Dominatrix. It's just that. A fantasy. Wank fodder for men around the world. Go to a dungeon party, and you'll see what I mean.Most of the time, when you walk into a dungeon, you will have no clue as to which women are Dominant. There's no secret handshake, no special attire.

    To even find out which woman is Dominant, you'll probably have to ask.either the woman or someone that works at the dungeon. The woman running around in pigtails and lace panties could very well be a Dominant. Don't assume. I can't tell you how many male Dominants have approached me, thinking I was submissive just because I was dressed a certain way or acted a certain way towards Shilo. You might see the rare female in leather, but don't count on it.

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  2. I believe that there are lots more men wanting discipline than there are disciplinary wives or female Dominants. I've attended Fem Domme parties where the ratio is 2 submissive men to every female Dominant. Join any spanking site, and once the men find out you're a spanker, you get inundated with messages.

    My point is that there aren't enough women to go around, and that men are often disappointed that their wife or girlfriend is unable or unwilling to even walk down that road. I think that vanilla men have it the hardest, because to even admit that you want a spanking or need a spanking takes a certain amount of courage, and the chances of being shot down are pretty high.

    So, if a man is fortunate enough to have a woman in his life that spanks him for the joy of it, rather than charges him, she is a rare find, and he should be appreciative of it. I couldn't imagine paying someone so my needs could be met, but men do it on a regular basis.

    I honestly feel that finding someone is the hardest part for men,

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    1. Hi Merry,
      I would like to add to what you have said some perspective on any shortage of willing women spankers.I think there is a difference between men who seek spanking and discipline in a casual relationship or at parties for example and men who introduce it into an intimate relationship over a period of time.. My experience can't be that different from other males and I have found most women are very open to exploring spanking in a committed relationship. So I think the "shortage" has more to do with the way some men approach it than inevitable rejection from the women.Also things are changing pretty fast. Spanking isn't in the closet any longer and although it may not be everyone's cup of tea it is often on the menu. I will admit this. My sample of women spankers do include almost exclusively very intelligent women, who are educated and maybe most important very interested in sex and sexuality. So maybe that's the key. But there are many wonderful women who are or could be open to spanking relationships with the emphasis on relationship and men seeking those relationships should know that.

      Alan

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    2. Hi Alan!

      I agree that spanking can be on the "secret" menu in a committed relationship, but I also feel that the approach is really important. Rather than asking outright, I think it should be suggested in a more playful way, but that's me.

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    3. Hi Merry,
      Enjoy your perspective.I agree that probably many/most spanking relationships do start as erotic bedroom play.What I wanted to emphasize was the importance of incorporating spanking into an ongoing relationship with a particular woman rather than try to paste it on to a relationship you have or hope to have. As always , your mileage may vary.

      Alan

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    4. Merry,
      Thanks for articulating something that took me over 25 years to do! I can't think of a conversation I have ever had that was harder to start and get through as the one where I asked my wife to spank me. That was about a year and a half ago, and neither of us would be willing to go back to the way it was before.

      And Dan, it is blogs like this that provide a perspective that helps those of us who are having trouble articulating their needs and desires.

      Thanks

      Jake

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    5. Thanks, Jake, and congratulations on finding the courage to articulate what you needed. I'm glad it worked out.

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  3. As a woman, I can say that society dictates that women are to be more submissive (subservient) to men than the other way around. Up until 30 years ago, most women (who weren't stay at home moms were teachers, nurses, and secretaries taking orders from men (principals, doctors, executives) Yes, we've come a long way, but we still have so much further to go.

    We're supposed to be sexy, attractive and thin, but heaven forbid we have lots of sexual partners, because then we're a slut, whereas a man is called a stud.

    Back to the point: We're taught from a very young age that we are supposed to act a certain way, follow what the man tells us, and be dependent on him. Being a disciplinary wife or Fem Domme goes against all those teachings. The pressure to be a certain way can be overwhelming, as well as the desire to be who we really are, Trying something new or different can be frightening, and knowing that there will be a switch in the authority and power can push us over the edge,

    However, by taking the challenge, being ourselves, and doing what is right for ourselves and the men in our life, we can finally reach a sense of peace. Not all men need or want discipline, but by getting out of our comfort zone, we can make our lives less complicated and happier. Yes, the pressure can be overwhelming, and we will often be stuck fighting off the fantasy men have about how we should be or act, and it will take work, but in the end, I think it's worth it.

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    1. I have no doubt that even though the world has changed a lot, social conditioning around gender roles can be a big impediment to taking on a leadership role in the relationship. Thanks, Merry.

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  4. Dan
    Love this topic and I do hope that I can shed some light from a females point of view. Sometime last year I wrote a bit of a history of how we got here which is posted in the User stories. I had an advantage in that it was in marriage counseling that Peter revealed that he went to a professional
    to be spanked only in an effort to channel some of his anger and rage that were often putting his career in jeopardy.
    When I chose to be the one doing the discipline I met with this woman who was lovely and looked nothing like a porn star. A middle aged well groomed career woman. Her coaching of how to and what not to do made it easier. Then Peter and I sat down and worked out rules etc. It took time but is was this or I was heading for divorce court.
    It took time, patience on both our parts and much flexibility. Like you Dan, peter doesnt live well with rules. We did a contract and revised it several times. My goal was to create a calm and united home for our boys. It has worked. I think often wives so wrapped up in their daily hassle dont see or notice that perhaps their mate needs attention.
    To see him curb his temper, or speak to the boys instead of flying off the handle thrills me. When he misbehaves I like having a way to relieve my frustrations with his behavior. One bonus is I discovered Peter appreciated me more and we began to share more and more decisions. To see him submit and accept my word on his bad behavior has made me a stronger wife, a better mother and a woman who has discovered that my power has indeed helped improve our sex life.

    Anna

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    1. Thanks, Anna. I think you have had a fairly unique journey into this lifestyle. I am always very glad to hear that your efforts to help Peter curb his temper have actually worked. It is a big issue for me, too, particularly at work. I also totally understand what you are saying about Peter appreciating you more. When I look back at the women I have gotten crushes on over the course of my life, they have almost all been really strong, powerful, imposing women. I know that many women worry that if the step into the dominant role they will be seen as "bitchy" or overly aggressive, but the men who want DD also almost necessarily want, and get turned on by, powerful and confident women.

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  5. I introduced my wife, after many attempts and years, to spanking me. She has been taking it seriously now or several years. I call her my dominatrix and while she has suggested getting the clothes for it, I prefer her the way she always is, normal clothes. Early on in our marriage we got the sexy underwear for her, the Teddy's etc., but it was basically a waste of money and not much of a turn on. The important thing for me is that she take the spanking of me seriously and with the implements we have gotten together.It works for us. We share the leadership of our household so no FLR or male led thing.
    Baxter

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  6. Dan, I agree with your statement that many DD/FLR relationships die on the vine because we, the men just expect all our troubles to be over. My wife will let me know if I am good or not, so if she does not say or do anything I'm good. I know for a fact that my wife has issues with just that attitude. We can not just dump our problems on our wives and expect her to monitor all we do. So to answer your question, I think that the women have it far harder than us. I know my wife and I have issues with working dd into our daily lives with kids around and all. So there ends up being starts and stops that happen and she will lose some of her confidence for a while.
    Bill

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    1. Hi Bill. Unfortunately, I suspect the starts and stops are just part of a real DD marriage. Thanks for dropping by.

      Dan

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  7. As far as who DD is hardest on, it depends on the people involved and how comfortable the woman is with the whole thing. I am comfortable with it having grown up seeing my brothers regularly corrected and believing it is a wonderful relationship tool to have. So for us it is definitely harder for him. He gets spanked hard, has had to accept behavior modification as a permanent goal, has to control his ego and suffers embarrassment ranging from mild to acute depending on how I administer and where. Our DD is rules based plus meaning if he breaks a rule or disobeys me his pants come down, end of sentence. The plus part is I decide when it happens and if I say he has broken a rule, he has, no backtalk, no second chances .There is no safe word., he cannot ask how many and I usually use a strap which he hates and I love. When he asked me to spank him he thought it was going to be a sex game (which to be fair it was in the beginning) He knows better now and in my home discipline and sex are completely separated and sex is something I control. In my opinion women who feel burdened by being the family disciplinarian are probably being topped by their “pretend” obedient husbands, or they have some inappropriate guilt about making him pay for his sins. That has not and will not go on in my home. Being his disciplinarian has liberated me to express my needs and to punish him without guilt. I think it has set him free also to seek boundaries and consequences and accept my authority which he wants and needs. But it is definitely something he has to work at and I make sure I keep him motivated (LOL)
    Amy

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    1. Hi Amy. Thanks for joining. This is really great stuff. I like the "rules based plus" label. That is what we strive for, though admittedly we're not quite there yet. I also understand the paradoxical concept of being free to seek boundaries and accept authority.

      Thanks again for contibuting, and I hope you do again soon.

      Dan

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    2. Amy

      Just adore the concept of "rules based plus". Trust me Peter and I will be discussing that concept this weekend. I am glad you bring up that this is for most of us, a continuing and changing process.

      Anna

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    3. Anna
      Rules based plus just made sense from the beginning. He wanted rules and structure but wanted to choose when to obey and what rules he would follow.He thought it was going to be an erotic game. I straightened him out on that score and a few other things. Along the way I found out things about myself I didn't know and ways to handle him I needed to learn.We have very few disagreements now and these are settled quickly.I sometimes wonder if he would have asked for all this if he had known where it was going.It doesn't really matter because we are not going back

      Amy

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    4. I had a topic a while back on whether, having asked for a DD relationship, it sometimes becomes more than the husband bargained for. It wasn't that long ago, so I'll wait a while before raising it again, but it is an interesting one.

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  8. I spent years agonizing over my feelings of submission and feeling ashamed to share them with Cathy. I felt that she would summarily reject my feelings and, in doing so, reject me. Slightly over a year ago I did share with her my desire to be in a submissive relationship with her. She accepted it. What has surprised me has been the way she has embraced her authority. This woman who was once quite timid and unassuming is developing a new confidence in herself as the head of our home. She now sits at the head of our dinner table. I sit at her right hand side, ready to serve her as she desires. Her willingness to give me corporal punishment has grown as well. I never thought she would embrace this lifestyle as she has. It is such a wonderful experience to see women grow in their leadership confidence. It is also wonderful to see that there are men in the world who are willing to declare and live their own submission to their women.

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    1. That's great, Tom. I agree it is wonderful thing to see your wife grow in confidence and power.

      Dan

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  9. Rather than answer myself, I put your questions to Mistress and this is her response:

    "The biggest challenge for me has been to assume the role of disciplinarian. I'm naturally dominant and like to be in charge when it comes to our relationship, but I didn't know anything about being dominant in the context of DD. in fact I'd never heard of DD before I began this relationship. Understanding how the dynamic works has been a lengthy, but interesting and enjoyable, yet sometimes taxing experience.

    "My 'boy' - and he often behaves like one believe me - could do so much to make me more comfortable in my role. I believe he truly wants to assume a submissive role within our relationship but he seems unable to totally give himself to this. It's meant him being resistant to my demands and being inconsistent in his submission.

    "Neither of us are looking for him to become a slave, in fact in many ways we have a very balanced relationship. But we also have certain rules we've both agreed to and I expect him to follow them or pay the consequences. With my lack of experience, that's often left me worrying that I'm being too forceful, taking my role too far, even though he claims that's what he wants.

    "I think we both now realise that when we make a plan, he really has to stick to his side of the bargain for this to work as a long term element of our relationship. We have done the groundwork, it's just down to him now to accept my authority."

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    1. Hi RM and Mistress. Take a look at the results on our current poll. It gives some insights on the extent to which most men think their wives are being too forceful or not taking the role far enough. Based on the poll results (which we'll discuss in an upcoming topic), I don't think I would worry too much about whether you are being too forceful.

      Dan

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  10. I find this an interesting topic. Like many, we engaged in light spanking as foreplay, both ways. I initiated it but my wife enjoyed it as well. I caressed more than the very modest spanks to her bottom. On occasion she would use a small paddle (called an attitude adjuster she used to scare the boys when they were young - but never used) on me and often pretty hard. On our tenth anniversary, when it was my turn to receive she walloped me hard enough I jumped off her thighs, she said "what's the matter can't you take it?' Challenged I went back over her thighs and she gave me about 30 more. Great sex followed and after that we went to a very nice restaurant and were sipping Champaign. I told her I'm not sitting toot comfortably. She replied, "you got what you deserved!

    Years later my wife has grown much stronger and to avert a possible divorce, I agreed to rules of behavior when violated would consistently result in my being spanked harshly without exception - zero tolerance. It has worked miracles in improving our relationship and when there is a violation she is very consistent in roasting my rump. Except for this submission, I am clearly the decision maker and leader with all the responsibilities that entails. My wife has told me on more than a few occasions, disciplining me takes a lot of her time and effort and she really doesn't enjoy giving me the paddling I deserve, but she does it because it has really improved all aspects of our marriage and she respects me for taking the punishment and working really hard to change some very bad habits and behaviors.

    Based on our pre DD experiences, I'm not to sure I believe her, but so what, it works for us.

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    1. Sounds like it is working great for both of you. That's all that counts.

      Thanks for contributing.

      Dan

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  11. Asking my wife this question, her answer is interesting. She states some women are more the "Mother Type" than others. She goes on to say that her Mother was very much aware the importance of raising the children and at times insuring her Dad was taken care of also. Dating for me was not picking a woman that I would ask to change to meet what I desire in a marriage, but one who already had the same views I had. It took time, good things come to those who wait, the old saying. It was shortly after we started dating what we both were wanting came out, a little at a time. She had a nice home and three months into our relationship I moved in, and that is when the rules of the household were layed out. The first spanking I got was really for my attitude and behavior, it was and always has been, otk, bare, hairbrush. She does get your attention and it last for sometime. Her best friend has tried the same with her husband, but it is not working out. Since our marriage I feel more sure of myself, I feel less stress, my wife takes the lead at home, but she prefers if stays home and the last thing I wish others to really know.

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    1. It is interesting that several husbands comment that they feel more sure of themselves once subjected to DD. Again, it seems paradoxical to become more secure, more confident or a better a leader once we are subject to someone else's control, yet it's true.

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    2. I totally agree. I dont feel the need to prove myself right or smarter etc. And when I do err there is a comfort in knowing discipline and corner time can erase the stigma of bad behavior. It has helped me feel not so much alone. Every day Anna shows me how I become a better boss , a more patient father and a more respectful husband and partner to a woman who always has our best interest at heart.
      Anna's Peter

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  13. My Mistress Wife and I are always conscious of this very topic. Thank you for raising it Dan. As much as she continues to find more and more comfort in her role as Dominant in our FLM, she is still a sweet, caring, loving human being and will often feel pressure to know what it is I may want , and then feel the added pressure to give me what she thinks I may want. When that happens, and if either of us recognize it is starting to cause stress, we simply talk about it and assure each other that everything is ok.

    To answer your question, I believe it is harder on the Dominant because there is a natural tendency to continue to make the lifestyle exciting and new. I think this is natural and all apart of the learning curve and the best defense against unnecessary stress in this regard is to communicate it through.

    Thanks for another wonderful question.

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  14. Our spanking experience started in a playful (and reciprocal) mood, typically as a sort of foreplay, well before our wedding. Once we were married, however, a number of "house rules" were established (more or less by common agreement) -whereby I was expected to follow certain norms of "behavior" and to regularly perform a number of household chores - failing which I should be duly chastised.

    In short order, after using the "tools at hand" (i.e. her hairbrush or the kitchen spoon), she went on to expand her range of disciplinary instruments - with switches, a leather belt, a martinet, a crop and a rattan cane...

    Once in a while, if I misbehaved before her sister, or before one of her close friends, I might suffer the humiliation of being spanked or whipped under their eyes.

    She is now (and has been for some years) fully in charge - and I have long since come to accept it as a fact of life...

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    1. Thanks for contributing. It's great that you have both accepted the roles. I still can't imagine being spanked in front of a relative or friend.

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  15. I put this question to Rosa and she said that she does often struggle with not wanting to push things too hard when there are obvious stress factors at work. She still feels like she has to navigate around my moods at times, (which bothered me when she admitted this).

    However, she did say that when everything is 'running smoothly', DD is definitely harder on me since she has the power and authority and I'm the one who has to obey. She sees 'obedience' as very challenging since she herself would never agree to it.

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    1. Couldn't agree more fellas. Dan, you're most certainly right about it probably being one of those "real world" aspects.

      To add to the chorus of "mine too", Mistress K. feels the same from time to time. the good news is that as time goes on, she is less and less concerned about navigating around my moods, and more and more concerned on using me to adjust her moods the way she wants. Consequently, we just seem to be happier and happier.

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    2. I see you changed your profile picture in response to Google's aborted policy change

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    3. Yeah. I'll have to come up with something new now that they have taken a 180

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