Saturday, November 29, 2014

The Forum - Vol. 68

Hi all.  I hope all of our U.S. readers had a great Thanksgiving, including time off with friends and family.

So, I got a little testy with a fellow blogger this week who had a post suggestion that "repeated spankings" were an indication that the DD relationship was "just a game," and going on at length  about what he saw as the supposed irrationality of adult spankings.  And criticizing one commenter for wanting to be reduced to a sobbing mess, while this same blogger has posted about hs own desire to be "broken."  But, perhapsn I am being to harsh.  What was it Hobbes said about "a foolish consistency . . ."? 

But, as someone who has gone through the process of discovering DD and overcoming my trepidation about asking for it, then watching what it has done for us and for my wife's growing sense of empowerment in particular, I tend to get a little annoyed by people who haven't actually experienced it but feel free to cut loose with criticisms and opinions regarding motivations that they themselves have not felt and, therefore, don't understand.  It is especially annoying when the criticism comes from segments of the Femdom community who insist DD is "just a game," as in a spanking fetish, or in some way irrational or weird, while their own relationships are just as out of step with adult norms and tend to come dressed up with all sorts of "weird" accoutrements that they see as totally rational. 

Whatever.

But, my biggest annoyance is with myself for responding in anger and doing it on someone else's blog.  I really need to stop doing that, because in the end, people can voice whatever opinions they want on their own blog, well-informed or otherwise.  Which, is why I stopped short of saying some of the above as a comment on his blog but now feel free to say it on mine.

But, there was a serious question lurking in that post that got me riled:  If you do find yourself being spanked repeatedly for the same offense, why is that?  Is it because for you DD really IS just a game?   Could there be a part of you that doesn't want the behavior to stop because the spankings might stop?  Or, maybe the bad behavior is a long-term habit that you can't break despite your best efforts?  Perhaps your wife keeps moving the bar and applying discipline for smaller variations of the offense?  Or, perhaps the discipline is not hard enough, long enough or consistent enough to give you the incentive you need to really stop. 

So, what is keeping you stuck in that bad behavioral rut that DD won't fix?  Or, have you had that problem in the past but figured out a way to deal with it?

Dan

45 comments:

  1. The topic of repeat bad behavior must be a problem for everyone at some time. I still sometimes do get in trouble for three different things that my wife considers chronic and unacceptable and that have been “spankable” since we started DD. One of them is masturbation without getting her approval, another is childish throwing of tantrums when I am frustrated and the third is having an occasional cigarette when drinking with friends. She considers the masturbation a permanent issue she can reduce but probably not end. If I do masturbate I have to report it at our next behavior review and almost always I am immediately spanked after being made to bring myself to orgasm usually if front of her. This has greatly reduced masturbation over the years but I still weaken sometimes and always pay for it. She has told me she expects this to happen from time to time and I know what will happen if it does. But she doesn’t expect to stop it permanently. Tantrums are in the same category as my wife thinks I probably can’t completely control them but she can reduce them (she has) with a combination of embarrassment and spanking. Smoking is different. She is determined to completely end it and maybe she has. It has been almost four years since I had one. The punishments are draconian and I am not going to go into them but she has told me she would rather see my bare bum black and blue forever than to let me blacken my lungs with smoke. I guess I am saying there are two kinds of repeat bad behavior. Both drive my wife crazy but masturbation and tantrums she is satisfied to punish severely and then move on expecting to lessen them but not eradicate them. The other (smoking) is completely unacceptable and she will give me more and more punishment for it until I permanently stop

    Alan

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    1. Thanks, Alan. I'm glad to hear she's succeeded at 100% eradication of the smoking habit. That is a hard one to break.

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  2. Stubbornness, willfulness, thinking you can sneak the behavior past us. Just a few of my theories. I know that with Shilo, much of it has to do with him thinking that he is superior, although he will deny it. I don't see this as a "game" at all. Rather it's an extension of my being a Dominant. It keeps everyone in line. Every member of my Household has been spanked by me. I am not a wimpy light-handed spanker either.

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  3. My wife and I agree that I should be spanked regulary - whether for specific misdemeanors or to remind me that she is HoH (you could call that a "maintenance" spanking). The "system" was developed by mutual agreement, and we are both happy with it. My bottom gets paddled or whipped at least once a week (and more often twice)

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    1. Thanks. Maintenance spankings are another good future topic.

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    2. Whether for a specific fault, or "just because", what matters - to her, and thus indirectly (or rather, "directly" !) to me - is to remind me that she must be obeyed - or else...!

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  4. Some habits are very hard to break and need repeat spanking. I like Alan's comment. I have found that the time between repeat spanking gets further and further apart and that tells me it works.
    archedone

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  5. I can understand why people view it as a game – and it’s taken me some time to realise it is a real part of our relationship.
    I suppose DD is a game – in the real sense - as either party can decided to stop DD at any time and revert to a more vanilla relationship. Mistress can’t force me to do her bidding or take her punishments. But neither can I force her to be an authority figure.
    Is adult corporal punishment irrational? In the society we live in now, it probably is but if you research the history of flagellation you will discover that corporal punishment has always figured in adult relationships.
    And if you both accept it as an element that benefits a relationship, then it surely becomes real? And what makes it ever more real, for me, is when you being to want to change your ways to one, please your partner and two, avoid punishment.
    Why am I punished for the same offences? Because what we’re trying to correct are in-built character traits like my laziness, my overbearing attitude. We find a short sharp shock brings me to heel and works for several days, sometimes weeks, before I gradually slip back into old ways.
    Will harder, longer punishments work become a bigger incentive to behave better? Perhaps but I think character traits are so deeply ingrained they are hard to fully eradicate but Mistress does now punish quite severely, but while her cane is something I try to avoid, I still fall short in my behavior.
    Am I afraid punishment will stop if I am well behaved? I don’t think we’ll ever get to a point where Mistress is entirely happy with certain aspects of my behavior/performance/attitude.
    So does that mean she keep raising the bar? I don’t think she does in terms of what she expects from me – though, As I’ve said, she’s definitely raised the bar in terms of severity of punishment.

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    1. Thanks, RM. I agree with a lot of this but I don't think the fact that either party can choose to stop makes it a game. That just makes it consensual. Your observation that some of what a wife seeks to correct may fall into the category of a character trait strikes a chord. I hadn't thought of it quite like that, but it makes a lot of sense.

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  6. Not all 'spankable' offenses are the same, so the efficacy of spanking to eradicate them will also differ. When we started we had a few basic household rules about locking doors, keeping certain things clean, and honoring certain preferences. At first these things were a matter of awareness and changing of habit. Initially I was spanked quite a bit for forgetting.....but now there is not a single behavior of this type that I still do.

    On the other hand, there are aspects of behavior that are simply my nature that I am in a constant state of effort to mitigate. I doubt I will ever eliminate these tendencies but spanking helps control them.

    Is it a game? Parts of it actually are, other parts are fairly serious. In Batman, Twoface uses a coin to determine a person's fate. It's like a game........but the consequences are pretty serious.

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    1. Thanks, KD. I (again) like your point about starting with small, more easily managed offenses and working up the ladder. It makes a lot of sense, and I intend to follow up with both my wife and with this as a Forum topic.

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  7. EXCELLENT POST!

    "Or, perhaps the discipline is not hard enough, long enough or consistent enough to give you the incentive you need to really stop."

    I had to admit it, but this reason is the most common in my house. My Mistress Wife and I spoke about this very thing yesterday. We were in bed and had just finished playing, and while she was breathing heavy and recovering from her yummy orgasm, and as I lay there denied, we talked about what was so arousing for her about being the dominant one. At the end of the day, it was about the control, in an acknowledged, super-loving relationship, she truly enjoyed having the power and loved expressing it in different ways. She sometimes would express in a harsher-than-normal spanking, or by biting my nipples (which she knows I don't like). She even admitted to enjoying see me whine about her ignoring a sexy text or picture I sent her.

    As far as spanking goes as punishment and sex play, I think there is absolutely a benefit from repeated spankings for the same (or similar) recurring offenses. If for no other reason, the spankings do 'wash the slate clean' for Mistress and I and allows there to be a memorable understand of what went wrong and why. That in and of itself is beneficial in our relationship.

    All this being said, I will reject the premise that repeated spankings are the definition, or even an indication of the existence of a "rut" in my relationship with Mistress K. in our acknowledged FLM. I think that is point really ..... it works for us and we don't try to fit our life together into someone else's definition of how things should go. We live, we love, we learn, we spank, we learn.

    If the blogger you speak of is who I think it was, I will say that I admire that man and his opinions (submissive husband) as much as any writer on the topic I have read to date.

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    1. I agree with you on the value of "wiping the slate clean," and I think it is an under-recognized benefit of DD. And, like you, lack of consistency is one of the major dynamics that keeps our DD relationship from being fully effective at really changing long-standing, deeply engrained behaviors or, as RM rightly called them, "character traits."

      I do respec the opinions of the blogger I was referring to, when he is talking about something that he actually knows something about. He is in what is basically a "service Femdom" relationship, and one that doesn't include any element of physical discipline. That doesn't keep him from making some pretty critical comments regarding something he hasn't actually experienced. By his own admission, he has been "punished" physically one time, and it "didn't hurt much" and he wanted her to do it harder, which means it wasn't remotely close to a real punishment spanking. I also have a problem with someone who is into something a whole lot of people would find "weird" and "irrational," but freely applies that term to others' lifestyles.

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  8. I enjoyed Alan's comment very much and felt compelled to comment on a couple of things. One is a "how we do it my house" and the other is to explain, again, that each house is different and because it is different, it sometimes seems so foreign to us that it might tend to be thought of as wrong.

    In my house ....... unauthorized masturbation is not only forbidden, doing so would be akin to infidelity in my marriage. It might the cause of her removing my collar, or worse (if there was such a thing). In the beginning of our FLM, I wore a cage during those times that Mistress though I might be vulnerable to the urge to masturbate but in time I have earned her trust so much so that now the only time the cage ever comes out is for punishment or for her desire to use it symbolically. If I were to masturbate, I would be subject that the mysterious severe punishment (that I have never received) that Mistress K. only describes as "don't ask because you don't to know".

    Which is right, the way Alan's Mistress does it, or the way Mistress K. does it? Of course they both are. All in all though, if the time between spankings given for recurring offenses continues to grow, then I feel that progress is being made as a result of those very spankings.

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  9. Also, like sub hub in phx wrote, it "washes the slate clean." Once Shilo has received his punishment, he nows that I have forgiven him, and I won't nag him or remind him constantly ofhis prior transgression. He also knows that repeated transgressions will make the next punishment worse.

    Like Alan wrote, masturbation without permission gets Shilo in trouble, as well as lying about smoking. I know when Shilo has had a cigarette, and he knows he better tell me about it, because I can smell it from several feet away.

    There's an acronym in my kink community YKINMKBYKIOK. It means Your Kink Is Not My Kink But Your Kink Is OK. It means I don't have to understand your kink or even embrace it, but unless it's over the top (children, animals/insects, scat) it's okay. Besides, who am I to complain/laugh at a kink that makes a person feel better about themselves and the world around them?

    This works for us, and that's all that matters.

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    1. HI Merry. Well said. I haven't heard that acronym before, though I certainly agree with the sentiment. Dan Savage, whose columns I really enjoy, puts it simply: Don't criticize other people's kink. And, that is exactly what hacked me off about the whiff of moral superiority that came shining through in the blog comments I reacted to.

      Though, I don't claim to be perfect on that front either. Early on in the history of this blog, I got into a tiff with a commenter when I said something was meant to be supportive but criticized an aspect of the control his wife had exercised on him. He called me on it, and I apologized. It taught me again to be both careful and gentle when wading into someone else's life choices. But, it also taught me that there is a spectrum of men who are interested in this blog, ranging from Funishment to something like "pure" DD, with a lot of variation in between.

      And, the blog entries and associated comments that hacked me off shared another theme that gets under my skin, namely that husband's who are subject to repeated disciplinary spankings are somehow deficient as compared to more compliant Femdom submissives. It illustrates something that I couldn't put my finger on at first but started noodling a bit after my wife and I started experimenting more with Femdom and it just did not do anything for me. The distinction that experiment brought home to me is that many submissives admit that they are naturally so, i.e. they LIKE submitting. It is what they actively crave. It makes them happy. Not true for a lot of men who are drawn to DD, who are often the complete opposite of a submissive in their day-to-day lives. They actually do not "like" or get off on submission but, rather, see it as being good for them or helpful to their relationships. When seen in that light, Femdom submissives shouldn't spend much time patting themselves on the back about their more fulsome submission, since it is wholly in line with their own character and desires. Under those circumstances, is SHOULD BE EASY for them to submit. They get off on it!

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  10. To my mind, discipline isnt a matter always of correcting behavior as much as reminding Peter
    that I will not tolerate behavior that endangers our home and family. This includes his curbing his temper at home and at work. He works in an industry that is full of last minute revisions always based on the desires of the client. To lose his cool at work could and at one point did put his advancement in serious jeopardy.
    I think men in general tend to keep their hurts, frustrations and most important fears and personal insecurity hidden. This release makes his and my family's lives pleasant. In trusting me to
    deliver this discipline it has given me a much stronger sense of self.

    Anna

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    1. Anna, out of curiousity, how do you beome aware when Peter loses his cool at work? Does he self-report such incidents?

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    2. Dan
      About the time we began couples therapy, Peter's business partner was putting pressure on my husband to curb his temper. It had gotten out of control and has
      caused their firm to lose an important client. Much of his problem had to do with
      drink and there is was made clear things had to change. At the intervention it was
      agreed that his behavior on the home front as well as work had to change. He agreed
      that I would stay in touch with his business partner.
      The drinking got under control and about that time we began home discipline. For details check my entry in stories. At this point I speak with both his partner and
      his personal assistant who in the past had been the one who took the brunt of his
      temper.
      As time passes Peter has gotten to the point that he comes to me often when he is
      on edge and asks for a session. We both see that this works for us. I am aware that
      it might not work for everyone but it is our solution.

      Anna

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    3. I swear, sometimes it's like your husband and I seem to be twins, living almost identical lives. Other than my wife doesn't have anyone at work to rat me out.

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    4. Dan

      Perhaps she should ! :)

      anna

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    5. I actually agree with you 100%. There just isn't an obvious candidate for it.

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    6. Dan
      Perhaps you need to be the one who rats yourself out daily to you wife. Peter often now tells me before anyone else tells me when he feels he may have gone over the top.
      Think about it!

      a friendly Anna

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    7. First, when have you ever been less than friendly?

      Second, I think the problem with ratting yourself out is it is really putting boundaries around yourself, when what I really need--and what I think a lot of disciplinary husbands need--is having those boundaries imposed upon them. If I act up at work and ask my wife to punish me for it, that's probably better than no punishment at all. But, what you have with Peter's co-workers who rat him out is better for him, because he is no longer in control of the conequences for his behavior. If I have to report and ask for punishment, then I am--in efffect--in control of the consequences of my behavior.

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    8. Dan

      I get your point. Tell me something, does your wife read this blog?

      Anna

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  11. i do not have a DD or HOH or FLM relationship with my wife. It took me many years for her to spank me and now she doing it, more of because I want it.She says she has no issues with it because whatever I want, she is good with. I enjoy her paddling or strapping my ass. Anyway, I saw much meaning in Anna's response above, in the third paragraph. Men, me included, keep our hurts and frustrations and etc hidden. I am sure my wife realizes this as well and she does encourage me to open up and from time to time I do.. I do believe I would benefit from a FLM type relationship with plenty of spankings. It would likely make me a better manager at work where I have occasionally been a total asshole In those times, a severe ass beating is needed and if I could only admit it to my wife. Surely she does yell and scold me, but maybe a thorough spanking would work wonders. Maybe someday I will bring that up.
    Baxter

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  12. Well, for a number of reasons spanking is not my thing.

    While working in the studio a number of years ago I had the experience of spanking men who were paying for it. One of the problems for me was that I actually enjoyed doing it. Carried to an extreme I can easily see how spanking can lead to real abuse in a femdom relationship. At some point there is the potential of the wife putting down the paddle in favor of a real whip. On one occasion I was introduced to a man- a husband- whose entire backside was scarred by the whip.
    It was not so much for punishment for him as it was a type of sick thrill for her. In my opinion their relationship had turned from a loving type of femdom to something abusive.

    It may seem old fashioned but I don't believe spanking is lady like. A wife should not have to lift a finger in order to punish her man. My husband knows that I carry a hair ribbon in my purse.
    He also knows that I am not adverse to having him wear that ribbon in public. It is a simple type of deterrent that helps keep him in line.

    Love, Kathy

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    1. Hi Kathy. I agree with you regarding the potential for abuse in any situation where one party dominates another, and you're right that it may be a particular concern where the relationship involves corporal punishment. I've seen examples in other contexts. There was a DD group on Yahoo that I was a part of some time ago, where the wife spanked the husband before they had sex. Every time. She clearly could not engage in any intimacy without it, and he was clearly in pain but was afraid she would leave him if hs stopped capitulating.

      But, I do think the potential for abuse extends beyond spanking and into a lot of the D/s and B/D world. There was a discussion recently on the blog that was the subject of my rant about a wife ordering that her husband would never have another orgasm, ever. While not as physically damaging as a spanking, taking chastity to that extreme seems to me to be an abuse of power.

      I think the key point is that in any relationship that involves an exchange of power, both parties need to be mentally and emotionally balanced. The dominant party needs to be generally responsible, and the submissive party needs to have at least enough backbone to say "enough" if things go in a direction that is mentally and emotionally abusive. For that reason, I think that a lot of the DD relationships that the contributors to this blog are part of are actually LESS susceptible to abuse, because the women do not start out as "naturally" dominant and the men often are naturally dominant but enter into DD because it allows them to give up some of that control and dominance in a search for balance. Because the women often start feeling disempowered, physically punishing their husbands gives them some of that power and makes them more balanced. Similarly, the men may be overly dominant in their daily lives, and accepting spankings from their wives gives them some needed humbling. But, because they ARE naturally Alphas, it is unlikely that they are going to let themselves be truly abused wiithout reassessing the relationship.

      Coversely, I do worry more about M/f forms of DD and some Femdom relationships where the women are "naturally" dominant and the men are "naturally" submissive, because instead of trying to tempter their dominant tendencies, both parties are playing them up. That's the opposite of striving for balance. But. I also recognize that some of this is my own prejudices talking and, while I do worry that there is more POTENTIAL for abuse in a M/f discipline situation, because culturally men have often dominated women and kept them down, I'm sure that many women actually do feel the need to have boundaries imposed for the same reasons I do and that there is nothing at all abusive about that situation for them.

      Anyway, thanks for contributing.

      Dan

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  13. I understand what Kathy is saying but it leaves something important out. There are apparently men who do not need spanking to function in an FLR, but there are others like me and most of the guys on this board who would not function well under their wife’s control without spanking or the threat of it. Neither side in this divide is “right” nor “wrong” It simply the way some men are wired. But if my wife pulled out a ribbon and told me to put it on in public without the sanction of spankings if I disobeyed I would probably just chuckle at her. It wouldn’t work. Kathy makes another point or perhaps an implication I also strongly disagree with and that is many women come or would come to abuse their authority if authorized to use corporal punishment. On the basis of my own experience and those I have read on this board just the opposite is usually true. I am not saying there are no abusive female disciplinarians (although I have never met one) but I am saying they are far from the norm. This topic probably deserves more attention, especially the divide between men who need physical discipline to behave and accept their wives authority and those men controlled without it

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    1. I'm on the fence where the non-spanking discipline is concerned. I do think spanking will always be a part of our DD relationship, but part of the reason is because I am really looking for that catharctic experience where I finally just totally surrender, and I don't think it will happen without the physical punishment taking me past my emotional blocks. I really don't know what woud happen if you relied more on non-physical punishments, but we have talked about trying them where some habits or bad behavior may take some extra leverage.

      Without putting words in Kathy's mounth, I don't think she said that "many" women would abuse their corporal punishment authority, but that it is a concern. As I said in my reply, I agree that there can be a risk of abuse whenever one party dominates over another. It's why communication is key. Even if the dynamic begins consensually, it is critical that parties check in with each other regularly to make sure it is still working, and sitll entirely consensual, for both.

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    2. Perhaps the use of non-spanking discipline might make a good topic? What/Who/When/How?

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    3. Hi Anonymous. I agree and thought about including it with this one, but I think it works better as a separate topic.

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  14. If I was to hand Shilo a ribbon for his hair, he would be thrilled. Feminization is a treat for him.

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  15. In my case, our first step at resolving problem issues with my wife was discussing and then listing them. My objective was to understand what I did that irked her and stop that behavior. I was often surprised not realizing I was doing or saying things that troubled her. The minor issues were easy to correct (leaving the toilet seat up, not turning off lights, not interrupting her when she was on the phone, not forgetting to leave messages when her friends called, etc.) Spanking were a reminder I screwed up and it didn't take me long to correct those indiscretions.
    The serious areas such as losing my temper, treating my wife like a secretary (I had one who did everything I asked her to do at work), always being the leader (selfishness) were ingrained in my behavior and very difficult to stop. When violations of these kinds occurred, I got paddled good. My wife released anger and my guilt abated, but I knew I had to improve in these areas, especially. Every paddling I got was a reminder this behavior was not acceptable and damaging our relationship. I slowly improved, and our relationship is much much better because my wife knows I'm really trying to improve. However, as hard as I try, I'll still screw up once in a while, usually my temper, and when that happens the paddle does its intended job with my wife swinging it. Things just don't get cured overnight and some behaviors are very difficult to shed, but you can minimize them even if you can't totally eliminate them. Domestic Discipline will work to improve your relationship if both parties want to make it work.
    On the other subject, relieving pressures from work or family responsibilities, I do believe a long hard spanking would relieve those pressures, although I have never experienced this. I do know that when I know I did something that really deserved a good paddling, and got that paddling, it relieved me of my guilt and whatever other pressures were confounding my brain, I felt totally spent, and ultimately relaxed. Tension completely gone.

    Fred

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    1. Hi Fred. Both those points are close to my own experience. Temper and more "hard-wired" issues are more resistant to correction, though even those get better. And, like you, I do feel spent and relaxed after a hard spanking, but I think it has more to do with feeling like I have atoned for the misbehavior. We have never used spanking as a stress reduction tool, though I do see how it could work that way for some people

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  16. I don’t consider getting spanked for the same misbehavior any kind of game. My wife and I have established ground rules. Foer example, I have always been bad at time management. I’m usually late for everything. Sometimes it drives her crazy. I have been repeatedly spanked for failing to call when I am going to be late for something but each occurrence is unique. I also am on the receiving end of a bare bottom blistering for losing my temper – but again each incidence has its own specific details. Overall, our dd relationship and OTK spankings has transformed me from the easy go lucky, non-responsible person I was … to the now much more reliable and ‘obedient’ husband my wife had hoped for all along.

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    1. I must say time management on my husband's part has alwys been an issue as well as his temper. Discipline does create husbands who are reliable and responsible.
      Anna

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  17. It seems far better to put a man in a chastity device to avoid masturbation. Regular beatings are not necessary.

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    1. If you see spankings as unnecessary "regular beatings," then why exactly are you visiting a blog devoted to domestic discipline, including corporal punishment? I keep getting comments from people who claim to be adverse to adult spankings, yet they are apparently searching for, and are certainly visiting this blog devoted to DD-oriented adult spankings.

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    2. Chastity devices may be an easy fix or at least a quick fix but they don’t build self-discipline nor show a man’s commitment to his wife and her rules. Anyone can stop masturbating as long as one of those things are on but they are easily defeated and more a game than real life. Although apparently some women do use them and approve of them, I believe they are more a male fantasy than submitting to your wife’s will. When my wife and I discussed ways to correct my life long masturbation habit she considered them and even bought one but we used it only twice. We both believe unregulated masturbation harms the relationship and has to be brought under control but the real test of obedience to her will is to use self-control and not masturbate (with permission I can occasionally) and to take your punishment when I slip up. I am not a man who gets “regular beatings” for masturbating but I am severely spanked the couple of times a year I willfully do it without permission just as I am punished for any other blatant disobedience. But what value is obedience if it is coerced and a husband has no choice. Others may disagree about this but I feel the same way about being held down or tied down for a spanking. When we first started to my shame I jumped off her lap several times thinking I could not take anymore. To her everlasting credit she calmly but firmly insisted I get back in place until she was done. I always eventually did probably ending up with twice the punishment but learning that I could stay in place without being restrained and letting her take me to where I needed to go emotionally. I think the cock cages are the same thing. You have to be free to really surrender and you will never learn to control masturbation if you rely on a mechanical device.
      Alan

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    3. Thanks, Alan. I haven't been tied down or restrained during a punishment session, but there are times I think that the "self control" involved in remaining in place and taking it for as long as she wants to go is part of the reason that I have a hard time fully surrendering to that point some men get to where they are finally able to let go and shed real tears and fully give into the discipline. I wonder sometimes if knowing that I cannot get up even if I tried would help me really let go.

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    4. Shilo has shown me that if a man is determined enough, he can masturbate to orgasm WITH a chastity device in place, so anyone who thinks a C/D is the end all be all doesn't know s**t! All you're doing is fooling yourself,

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  18. Hi Dan,
    We are all different but I know from your earlier comments she has taken you to where your bottom is numb and you are surrendering physically ( I actually often raise my bum up a couple of inches toward her brush at that point which lets her know where I am) But beyond the physical the psychological is equally important in letting go and both dimensions have to be right. For me getting a serious scolding and being ashamed that I need to be spanked is emotionally powerful especially when she takes the spanking to a point where it seems mentally to me she will never stop and I just give up holding on.Also and this hasn't been discussed much but my wife is comfortable with tears and has encouraged me for a long time to cry as a healthy expression of what I have done and what's happening because of it. She has given me permission to cry and likes it when I do and that makes it easier. Having said all this however if you feel being restrained might help , try it a couple of times.I can tell you this and that is the hopeless feeling ( in my case that the spanking will never stop) does lead to letting go. Being restrained might make you feel that same way

    Alan

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    1. Alan, great thoughts all. I'm going to hold off on commenting until tomorrow, because our next topic is focused on the results of our most recent user poll: tears!

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  19. Well my friend, it's obvious that this topic is interesting to many people. Thanks for the post!

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